Autarquía militar y continuidad de la represión, abril de 1939-octubre de 1940

No the runs are never from blocks, neither they "loose" time to train the start ability.

No athletes are running 2 different events.

K.K. did not use this training system in the past for the 400m. It was applied to 400m runners but the result was shin splits and "lower abs syndrome". No success

The intensities are indeed above 90% but not for the 1st repetition.

I have observed this training system for 7 years...

My opinion is that this system can only be applied to higher level athletes. If you think about it it's like a continuously pre - competition type of training. Can you imagine at the end of the

preparation how many times he has run a max intensity 200m? He knows every cm of the distance...

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The intensities are indeed above 90% but not for the 1st repetition.

I have observed this training system for 7 years...

My opinion is that this system can only be applied to higher level athletes. If you think about it it's like a continuously pre - competition type of training. Can you imagine at the end of the preparation how many times he has run a max intensity 200m? He knows every cm of the distance...

Linarski, thanks for the info! Makes sense to me! I believe that once a proper foundation (i.e.

conditioning, strength to weight ratios, etc.) is met; the emphasis should be on running reps at a high percentage. After all, sprinting up to 200m is 90 to 95 percent anaerobic, and one's training should reflect this!

But I'm still wondering why there is no speed plateau (Thanou has improved dramatically the past 5 years) in this type of training. If she had a better start technique I think she would be able to break indoor 60m World record...

I also believe that we will see KK running faster in the future.

Yeah! I think that they can continue improving speed by establishing new intensities at the beginning of the training phase. For example, after the final phase, overcompensation occurs, and then faster times are manifested. The next new phase starts with a faster workout time establishing a progressively intensified workout!

The theory I guess is similar to the weightlifters, they have dropped most of the ancillary exercises and now work mostly with the main competition exercise, with fluctuations in the loadings and volumes.

This ties in with what Charlie says, the # 1 priority is sprinting, everything else supports this (weights/Plo's ect), This program is specificity at its most extreme (Probably a little too much so)but what I think you can take from it is why worry too much about the biochemistry etc if most of your training involves fast sprinting over competition distance (be they 60's,100's,150's,300's) then you must be developing the relevant systems.

PS

I would give the CNS a break at some point if it were my athlete.

I understand exactly where the coach is coming from. It is training for a developed athlete and is particularly suitable for the 200. I can clearly see the logic.

It's probably also a great system particularly for women's 100 for someone like Thannou who is very much a powerhouse but would benefit a lot from the speed endurance.

But why doesn't Thannou so some work on her start? I don't know whether you looked at the recent Edmonton start thread but we covered her main issues.

Does the coach feel that she gets more benefit from the speed endurance nature of her training and working on the start may detract from this which would in turn mean that it would be harder to get back to this level of training?

She is a very powerful girl and her power overcomes a lot of the start problem in the 100, but you are right that this is a slight limitation in her 60.

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The interesting part of this training is how fast the improvement is

What type of progression and over what time do athletes new to this system under go?

Do you feel the work KK did as a 400m athlete developed a base which he is now able to take advantage of? Or does the coach feel that this is can be used for developing athletes?

Does KK perform 100m training in this way? I’ve noticed a few time accredited to him over the distance

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Does the coach feel that she gets more benefit from the speed endurance nature of her training and working on the start may detract from this which would in turn mean that it would be harder to get back to this level of training?

She is a very powerful girl and her power overcomes a lot of the start problem in the 100, but you are right that this is a slight limitation in her 60.

You see, here you have to stay focused: The coach cares only about max speed. If not he would also do more interval kind of training to develop the endurance. But he doesn’t. He stays with the high speed and by running this a couple of times more he develops the ability for endurance.

It sounds logic and the main thing is that it works. But while in the past the training up to indoor was only 60m reps,(and after focus to 100m reps) they found out that the speed endurance for

the 100m wasn't there in the summer. So now the distance is right from the beginning 100m. (I'm talking about the 100m sprinters).

Do you feel the work KK did as a 400m athlete developed a base which he is now able to take advantage of? Or does the coach feel that this is can be used for developing athletes?

Does KK perform 100m training in this way? Ive noticed a few time accredited to him over the distance

I believe that his 45.60 400m endurance is a good basis for a 200m sprinter. He runs sometime 100m but without training specific for the distance. This is the amazing part. His PB was 10.40 when he trained for 400. I assume he is able right now to run close to 10.05

I like your approach. You see there is a lot of research on the interval kind of training as we all know it (reps/intensity/etc) but no-one attempted to start his preparation season from a pre-competition level. This sounds unique if you think about it (why do we have to return always every new season to the basics?), but you need the dedicated athletes who want to do this instead to go for 1 month on vacation.

In Bulgaria particularly weightlifting is extremely specific and variability is low. Exercises are limited to:

1. Clean & Jerk; Power clean 2. Snatch; Power Snatch 3. Squat; Front Squat

Lifters rarely perform anything but singles, and intensity except during 'unloading' weeks is maximal.

Sessions are limited to 45minutes to limit drops in blood testosterone. The 30 minute rest period between exercises also permits a high intensity level to be maintained.

The Greeks seem to have developed these theories for Track. I would say that for a system to be successful requires two factors:

1. A 'camp' where athletes are provided physiotherapy, massage, nutrition and where all facilites are easily accessible.

2. Strong mental strength: Routines (and life) can become monotonous. Certain athletes regardless of talent just would not perform in such an environment.

Why do you we not see KK on the grand prix circuit (golden league especially)?

Next year the 200m is a grand prix event, let us see if he comes out then. I was wondering the same thing, why is he never around.

It makes a lot of sense now.

3. He has enough support not to need to.

2. His training doesn't really permit it.

1. Because the big ones are what he is after.

Let's face it, he is the current Olympic Gold Medalist, World Champ and European champ. I think he is achieving his goals

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posted by linarski

..why do we have to return always every new season to the basics..

yes, hence my observation re developing v developed athletes. The training is circular. It's hard to get in but when you are in it is efficient.

I don't think it is the right method for everyone but it does sound suitable to 200m men and 100m women that do not require multiple peaks or a sustained competition period.

From what you’ve observed the squad trains 2x3x100 or 200m (GPP), 2x2x100 or 200m (SPP) &

2x1x100 or 200m in comp phases, with one set in the morning & afternoon 5 days per week with thu/sun rest days. Apart from training is there any variation when preparing for competitions?

From what you’ve observed the squad trains 2x3x100 or 200m (GPP), 2x2x100 or 200m (SPP) &

2x1x100 or 200m in comp phases, with one set in the morning & afternoon 5 days per week with thu/sun rest days. Apart from training is there any variation when preparing for competitions?

Depending from the state of the athlete. From the times in training it is easy to control the status of your athlete and what to expect in competition. KK was running close to 19.5 (standing) before Sydney. Usually no need for variations. but the most important thing with this type of training is that worries about running technique, adaptation of energy systems required and speed development are not existing.

Everything comes in place like puzzle pieces after a certain period of time. My estimation is 1-2 full season cycles (depending from the athlete if he can tolerate this style of training).

BJ Speed is right about the testosterone level etc.

From what you’ve observed the squad trains 2x3x100 or 200m (GPP), 2x2x100 or 200m (SPP) &

2x1x100 or 200m in comp phases, with one set in the morning & afternoon 5 days per week with thu/sun rest days. Apart from training is there any variation when preparing for competitions?

Ok what does this mean 2x3x200 or 100? 2 reps with 30 minutes rest, doing a 100 or 200??? In the morning and in the afternoon.. I understand everything else but not this.

Hope this helps you. The 100m sprinters run 100m, the 200m sprinters run the 200m in training, twice a day. 3 reps in the morning & 3 reps in the afternoon with 30min break between runs.

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posted by mossman

I understand now. But how many times per week do they do this workout?

We already said this. 4-5 times a week. One thing you said was wrong: they go all the way up to pre-competition phase with 3reps in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. The 2+2 stands for about 20 days before the meet, and the single routines (only 2 or 3 in the afternoon) closer to the meet.

The last 3-4 days it comes to 1-2 reps and that's it. The key is to find exactly when super compensation occurs to YOUR athlete.

I think most people have had experience with being very fatigued via speed work; this is essentially like 'crash' training. I have always found, albeit accidently that, when my CNS is completely fatigued, a good couple of days rest and I bounce back in PR shape. I have never had the confidence to implement crash training though.

Over the years I've become very skeptical of "secret" training methods. Most of them turn out to be garbage or misinformation sold to gullible people. Remember all those Soviet training secrets?

People jumping off 5 foot boxes. Charlie's been very open about his training approach over the years and most of the dumbasses out there still aren't listening to him.

To the extent KK's training is successful, it's because the training is custom tailored to his individual needs. When it comes to basic training principles, there's very little new under the sun.

Minor refinements in application build up over time through experience, but the underlying principles don't change. So take everything with a grain of salt and never loose sight of the specific context in which training methods are being applied. And if the specific context is shrouded in mystery, then forget it.

Good point! Although I must add: Charlie is a brilliant coach, but, his way is not the ONLY way of training right!

I agree also with those opinions but the facts here are that the training KK is doing has fast results. That means that this bizarre style of single reps in high intensity make the body to adapt faster to the stimulus. No one can deny this. Also no-one can blame about why he is not training in good old traditional way (like we all know, etc). We just see the results and know the way (read the beginning of the forum), what we don't know is the mechanism of the system how it adapts so easy and fast. Why there is no speed-plateau. Also it sound (in the first place bizzare that jumps and weight lifting is not present). These are questions to investigate and to think about. Ofcourse there are many paths to the top of the mountain. Here we have a faster one and the theme is for everyone to start to think the evolution in sprint training.

3 years for KK (don't forget also Thanou - 10.83) at the top and 19.85 Is a good reason to do this.

For example one of my questions is what is happening with the CNS. Why is it not become over-trained. And many more.

As seen in Chris's Dr.Squat article (as well as numerous others if read off-line), the Bulgarians who use a similar system for weights (single max's), still drop the intensity from time to time to allow adaptation to occur, in fact the intense periods are quite short and are always followed by a moderate period. How ever from your description the Greek's don't appear to be implementing any time for regeneration and adaptation. Have you an idea where these important factors may fit into their program?

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As seen in Chris's Dr.Squat article (as well as numerous others if read off-line), the Bulgarians who use a similar system for weights (single max's), still drop the intensity from time to time to allow adaptation to occur, in fact the intense periods are quite short and are always followed by a moderate period. How ever from your description the Greek's don't appear to be implementing any time for regeneration and adaptation. Have you an idea where these important factors may fit into their programm?

They drop the quantity, that's how regeneration comes. The intensity stays always high.

What did KK, Thanou etc do for initial training. At what point does this kind of approach to speed become effective, is it only effective once a certain level has been achieved.

My main reason for asking is that although this approach wouldn't appeal to myself and many others because of it's overt simplicity, I can imagine it could be effective and would appeal particularly to female athletes, many of whom in my experience weight training with a vengeance.

Before the speed becomes effective they suffer from CNS crash down. No idea how they

overcome this. But training goes on. It seems that somehow the body adaptates (after 3-4 months they run really fast).It doesn't matter men or female. The system works for both. Thanou is

working like this from the very beginning of her training.

KK right after Sevilla.

Do the people you know run world record times?

Well they are world class athletes, running from Zimbabwae, and Jamaica.

Short rest would reduce testosterone levels and increase lactate free flow in the muscles. The last thing they want.

When the athletes are performing the 2x3x200m a day sessions, what is the sort of drop off in times they experience compared with taper and championship times?

Nice question...

the times can start from 23-24sec and it will go down close to the main competition under 20sec, but not 2x3 of course.

Sounds like the 7x100 used by HSI.

So most of the major clubs or organizations have kinda the same training. Like HSI for example does 7x100 and the Greek athletes do 2x3x200. So for the normal athletes they try to mix it up.

So what is the best rest time? Would it be better on the higher end side like 30 to 40 minutes? But when you peak can you drop it to 10 to 20 minutes. I read that the Greeks do the 20 minutes before a major comp. Correct me if I am wrong. I know in college we did ladders like this

1,2,3,4,3,2,1 but the rest was 20 minutes between. So is this for a person trying to get in shape?

Then the rest time will be greater when you are a professional and your body can handle the harder running (if you have a chiro and a massage person there) Just a general question.

Here is an study I got the chance to read the other day. Interesting implications for the use of the half or full squat- the hormonal response and specific muscle fiber recruitment as well as the effects of testosterone.

Med Sci Sports Exerc 2000 Jan;32(1):202-8

Monitoring strength training: neuromuscular and hormonal profile.

Bosco C, Colli R, Bonomi R, von Duvillard SP, Viru A.

Universita di Roma Tor-Vergata, Fondazione Don Gnocchi, Rome, Italy. [email protected] PURPOSE: This study investigated changes induced by a single heavy resistance training session on neuromuscular and endocrine systems in trained athletes, using the same exercises for training and testing. METHODS: Five different groups volunteered: track and field male sprinters (MS, N = 6), track and field female sprinters (FS, N = 6), body builders (BB, N = 6), and weight lifters performing low-repetition exercise (WLL, N = 4) and high-repetition exercise (WLH, N = 4). In training, the work performed during half and full squat exercise was monitored for mechanical power output as well as EMG analysis on leg extensor muscles of the subjects belonging to the MS, FS, and BB groups. Just before and immediately after the training session, venous blood samples were obtained for RIA determination of testosterone (T), cortisol (C), lutropin (LH), human prolactin (PRL), and follitropin (FSH) in FS and MS. In the other three groups (BB, WLH, and WLL), the hormonal profile was limited to T and human growth hormone (hGH) only. RESULTS: After training the power developed in full squat demonstrated a

statistically significant decrease (P < 0.01) in MS and no changes in FS. The EMG activity remained constant during the training session. Consequently, the EMG/Power ratio increased in both MS and FS, although only in MS a statistical significance was noted (P < 0.05). In MS immediately after the session the levels of C, T, and LH were significantly lower (P < 0.05). No changes were found in FS. In both groups and in BB significant negative correlation was found between changes in T level and EMG/Power ratio in half squat performance. CONCLUSIONS: It is likely that adequate T level may compensate the effect of fatigue in FT fibers by ensuring a better neuromuscular efficiency.

Full text of the article is available at:

www.acsm-msse.com/article.asp?ISSN=0195-9131&VOL=32&ISS=1&PAGE=202 I have one question in this technique, what do you do to get to this point of training?

I see the change in intensity and rest, but in November I cannot see a coach asking his athlete to run 23-24 seconds from day one. There is a base period, what do they do to get in shape?

Are you saying that this is not enough or too much work? 23-24 seconds seems quite slow to me.

23-24sec works out to be 83-87% of max speed for a 20sec sprinter I think 90% may be a little slow with 30 min recoveries.

Smoke has also made an interesting point else where, pointing out the Thanou has not made

Smoke has also made an interesting point else where, pointing out the Thanou has not made