Combination of classifiers

16 no

accipiter

Jul 28, 2009

6 convinced Rebuttal

Die for a piece of dirt? Don't be ridiculous. If you were talking about people of personal interest to me is a different question.

I have no patriotism in me at all. It's over hyped crap.

accipiter

Jul 29, 2009

4 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

That is the beauty of freedom of choice. The simple fact that they made the choice they made really has nothing to do with me. They did what they did for their own reasons. Don't you think some soldiers went to war for the glory or the fame or whatever other reasons they had? Somehow dying with a uniform on doesn't make it a better decision.

The standard line from the government is that they died for their country or the cause. That

doesn't make it true. Most government decisions to get involved in a war are ridiculous and have nothing to do with my life.

dkturner

Jul 28, 2009

3 convinced Rebuttal

There's a difference between patriotism and jingoism. The former is pride in one's country, and is generally a good thing (otherwise you're probably living in the wrong country).

Jingoism, on the other hand, is "my country, right or wrong". That's just stupid. Wrong is wrong. I'd have fought against Hitler in WW2, but the point is that it would be *against*

Hitler rather than *for* Britain. I would die in service to my principles, but not in service to my country. Since the two generally go hand in hand, it's an easy but horrific mistake to make.

accipiter

Jul 29, 2009

2 convinced Rebuttal

If there is an expectation for me to risk my life, it would only happen for something I thought was important.

accipiter

Jul 30, 2009

2 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

While I have no intention of discussing my personal principles in public and what they

happen to be is irrelevant to the discussion. Principles are what you hold most precious in your life and are very personal.

It has been said in here and echoed by others that laying down your life is the ultimate sacrifice but judging by your reaction to the statement that you could sacrifice your family speaks volumes to the power of the statement.

People seem to speak rather casually about laying down their lives in defense of what they believe but when it comes to sacrificing your family; it takes the conversation to a new level.

This is a decision you live with after the deed. So between the two, which is the Ultimate Sacrifice?

accipiter

Jul 30, 2009

2 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

How is it any more disrespectful for me to presume the intentions of those who fought and died in uniform than it is for you to also make a presumption on the opposite side? Since neither of us have first hand experience our assumptions are equally valid.

My assumptions are based on the huge array of opinions within any group of people and yet you want to apply the same virtues to them all. Dying for patriotism is a ridiculous concept.

If you feel the need to die for something, it should be for something real.

accipiter

Jul 31, 2009

2 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

People risk their own lives on a daily basis but balk at allowing their loved ones to engage in

the same behavior. Simply by engaging in such behavior is by definition, diminishing the importance of your own life.

Your principles are never truly tested in real life until the ultimate sacrifice is made. Judging by your response and that of other people this has really struck a nerve; and so it should.

You are proving that the ultimate sacrifice is not giving your own life but that of your family.

It is shocking and disgusting to even imagine that anyone would do it. Sociopathic insanity is an interesting term you used to attack without even hearing the scenario. Your revulsion was both expected and understood. If you were not repulsed by this notion then there would truly be a problem.

The following scenario is sick and twisted but it does put the example before you and I would love to hear your honest response.

“Your family is about to be killed. The ONLY WAY you can prevent their deaths is to torture and kill a child that you have never met and do not know.”

Would you torture and kill that child? (Taking your own life is not an option)

I invite everyone who is truly repulsed by this notion to think about and answer the question.

jonjax71

Jul 29, 2009

1 convinced Rebuttal

Back in the late 1960s when I was a revolutionary and radical activitist I was willing to die for a cause, now although I have matured beyond the perspective of thinking a molotov cocktail or shooting of an official of the oppostion is the way to make change, I am still willing to die for a cause, a belief-however that cause and belief is a lot of differetn now then it used to be.

I will not lay my life down for a country or nation, here, there or anwyhere, yet I would not hesitate to fight to the death protecting my family, my ideals, my property, civil rights and for the greater good of humanity

akulakhan

Jul 29, 2009

1 convinced Rebuttal

Everyone wants something good to die for, as opposed to dying for nothing. However, I am strongly opposed to nationalism. I do not think that one should hope for their own country to prosper, but instead hope that all people from any division, whether it be land or whatever, would prosper simultaneously. I definetly wouldn't die for an isolated group, that would then benefit them only.

teachme

Aug 01, 2009

1 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

It's true, Frankie...but Accipiter has the right to his feelings and opinions too...regardless of the choices others have made.

akulakhan

Jul 29, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

Keep in mind that the strongest form of nationalism to date was the Nazi party.

marcopolo

Jul 29, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

I wouldnt even fight for the my country let alone die for it. Politicians have their own power grab going on and it doesnt have anything to do with right or wrong or justice.

My battles are my own. Not some flag.

andre2552

Jul 30, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: frankiej4189 Show

This is often a lie. Where the country could have just stayed neutral in wars their country had nothing to do with, many of them chose to join in. Many of those millions died for the idiocy of their government.

slasheron

Jul 30, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

I would not die for my country(Philippines) at thsi current state. Our country as of now looks like it is dead right now. Unless there's a reason to die for it in this current time I am not willing to die for my country.

akulakhan

Jul 30, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

I took last years data in America for poverty rates per capita and military enrollment rates per capita, plotted them, and got an r value of .6, which is respectfully correlated. This means that poor people, whom don't own land, are dying for rich people, whom do own the land.

I wouldn't exactly call that dying for ones country.

andre2552

Jul 31, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: thevenerablerob Show

For one thing, Australia in both World Wars. We were under no direct threat in WWI, and in WWII, we were under threat only because we participated in the war. We went to war in WWI as a slave to Britain. Was there a reason to let our citizens die? For freedoms that were under threat from...who? No, there was none.

The US, though perhaps as a superpower they should've helped out anyway, acted well keeping neutral, and wouldn't have gone to war unless they were attacked, which is

reasonable, unlike Australia's reaction. In Vietnam, Australia and USA acted wrongly, many would not disagree. There are many examples.

mrphilosophy

Aug 02, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

i choose to live for my country

akulakhan

Aug 07, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: whateverx245 Show

May I ask why you would fight for your country?

hydar

Aug 15, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

die for your country this is the most insane thing ive heard to die for your family that is anather when i hear on the t.v that anather british troop has died i think to my self that man or woman has just given up his life so that many more innocent iraqi or afgahn civilion can die

akulakhan

Aug 17, 2009

0 convinced Rebuttal

Rebuttal to: shaykh Show

Didnt that one guy, (oh what's his face), say something once about defining someone not by their tan, or something similar to it, or where they come from, but instead by "the context of their character."?

Oh yeah, his name was MARTIN LUTHER KING JUNIOR; the greatest American martyr to grace the world with his presence.

Please note that my sarcasm is not intended to belittle the message of MLK Jr., for I've lived my life by such wise words as his.

praachijatar

Mar 27, 2010

0 convinced Rebuttal

In a time like today, no. Simply because it's not worth it.

Today, people are killing eachother everyday. Soldiers are dying for the country at war everyday. Does anybody benefit? Does anybody even care? It's a viscious circle. Why die for a country where nobody cares. Whichever country it may be, the patriotism that we used to see in the previous centuries has definitely dminished, if not faded away. It may be an act of heroism, but the entire country is way to busy in their daily life, to realize that you just died for them.