CAPÍTULO 3. DISEÑO DEL SISTEMA DE CONTROL CON ACCIONAMIENTO
3.5 Consideraciones finales del capítulo
caps for the same positions.
Vic Transformer Values Vic Transformer Values
Parts Suppliers Parts Suppliers
PCB kits and complete from PCB kits and complete from Tony Woodside
Tony Woodside www.globalkast.com www.globalkast.com
http://www.stanleymeyerwebshop.com/
http://www.stanleymeyerwebshop.com/
notes notes
Recently I've been thinking about the L1 and L2 choke
Recently I've been thinking about the L1 and L2 choke different values. I have come to a 2nd theory different values. I have come to a 2nd theory on why Stan made theon why Stan made the L1 choke a larger value than the L2 choke. Ideally
L1 choke a larger value than the L2 choke. Ideally the chokes would be of equal value, but realistically this the chokes would be of equal value, but realistically this is not so. Theis not so. The reason i think the choke were made of
reason i think the choke were made of different values is due to the different values is due to the voltage drop across the blocking diode. Typically you willvoltage drop across the blocking diode. Typically you will have a voltage drop across a diode of
have a voltage drop across a diode of 0.25v - 1.5v depending on the type. The MUR1550 has a voltage drop of around 1.5v.0.25v - 1.5v depending on the type. The MUR1550 has a voltage drop of around 1.5v.
So this voltage drop would cause a lower voltage output
So this voltage drop would cause a lower voltage output of the L1 choke at resonance and therefore the of the L1 choke at resonance and therefore the L1 chokes voltageL1 chokes voltage wouldn't be the same amplitude as the L2 voltage. So Stan had to
wouldn't be the same amplitude as the L2 voltage. So Stan had to make the L1 choke bigger in value to make the L1 choke bigger in value to compensate for thiscompensate for this voltage difference and make them equal in amplitude.
voltage difference and make them equal in amplitude.
Someone suggest to balance the circuit by placing a 2nd diode between
Someone suggest to balance the circuit by placing a 2nd diode between the secondary and the L2 choke, but this wouldn'tthe secondary and the L2 choke, but this wouldn't work because the diode on the negative side
work because the diode on the negative side wouldn't allow the positive voltage cycle from the negative wouldn't allow the positive voltage cycle from the negative side to pass to theside to pass to the cell. I have tested this and it
cell. I have tested this and it screws up the sine wave signal at resonance.screws up the sine wave signal at resonance.
Tony and everyone else, Tony and everyone else,
When I took the VIC coil readings, I only
When I took the VIC coil readings, I only measured one coil pack.To get those measured reading of mine,measured one coil pack.To get those measured reading of mine, I had to take apart the
I had to take apart the coils.They were all soldered together.Now I didn't even want to coils.They were all soldered together.Now I didn't even want to do one let alone several of do one let alone several of them.them.
So what I'm trying to tell
So what I'm trying to tell everyone here is to not everyone here is to not make too much of just one set of make too much of just one set of coil readings to mean thatcoil readings to mean that they were all the same for
they were all the same for every VIC coil set. As you can see every VIC coil set. As you can see by all of the photo's I by all of the photo's I took,all of these coils weretook,all of these coils were hand wrapped.I seen Stans crude coil winder there and it was just a
hand wrapped.I seen Stans crude coil winder there and it was just a small motor turning the coils and the wire small motor turning the coils and the wire waswas feed by hand.
feed by hand.
So knowing this,my best guess is that they were meant to
So knowing this,my best guess is that they were meant to be the same size.Because they were hand wound,be the same size.Because they were hand wound, and LCR meters weren't availible back then, it was just
and LCR meters weren't availible back then, it was just close enough.So I make mine with the same numberclose enough.So I make mine with the same number of turns like Stan probably did.When winding coils this way,you can end up with differnt readings from one
of turns like Stan probably did.When winding coils this way,you can end up with differnt readings from one coil to another.coil to another.
That's why I'm now making my own CNC coil winder.I should be ready to do a
That's why I'm now making my own CNC coil winder.I should be ready to do a test run today.It took me most of test run today.It took me most of the daythe day yesterday to get the Gcoil
yesterday to get the Gcoil code set up on my system to code set up on my system to count properly.count properly.
Don Don
Yea Don I can see what you are saying there. The coils
Yea Don I can see what you are saying there. The coils values can vary quite a bit. From tvalues can vary quite a bit. From t esting that I've done, it looks liesting that I've done, it looks li keke the main resonance takes place between the L1 coil and the
the main resonance takes place between the L1 coil and the cell. The L2 coil will act cell. The L2 coil will act as a resistance to current while havingas a resistance to current while having virtually no voltage drop across it like
virtually no voltage drop across it like a resistor would and while at the same ta resistor would and while at the same t ime increasing the voltage applied to it ime increasing the voltage applied to it andand making the voltage 180 degrees out of phase from the
making the voltage 180 degrees out of phase from the L1 coil. Do you agree with me on L1 coil. Do you agree with me on this?this?
Another thing that brings me to this conclusion is that in
Another thing that brings me to this conclusion is that in Stan's papers he shows the formula for calculating the resonantStan's papers he shows the formula for calculating the resonant frequency and only includes the L1 coil and the cell. Also
frequency and only includes the L1 coil and the cell. Also at resonance XL=XC which will give you a resistance close to zeroat resonance XL=XC which will give you a resistance close to zero and that would allow current to be very
and that would allow current to be very high, but the L2 chokes XL along with the magnetic coupling would provide anhigh, but the L2 chokes XL along with the magnetic coupling would provide an impedance to restrict the high current flow.
impedance to restrict the high current flow.
If you have something increasing the Z value is pointless to
If you have something increasing the Z value is pointless to call it resonant charging choke. What stan say is that he restrictcall it resonant charging choke. What stan say is that he restrict the amps and allow voltage to take over
the amps and allow voltage to take over in a dead short condition.in a dead short condition.
A series circuit is a dead
A series circuit is a dead short condition.short condition.
If you short circuit a battery you
If you short circuit a battery you have internal resistance that limits the current to have internal resistance that limits the current to a certain value.a certain value.
Similarly stan reminds you secondary resistive wire... The source has an impedance that must be taken into account.
Similarly stan reminds you secondary resistive wire... The source has an impedance that must be taken into account.
to have an ideal voltage source, many batteries in parallel
to have an ideal voltage source, many batteries in parallel would fit. Alternator... anything with high short current ability.would fit. Alternator... anything with high short current ability.
The bifilar choke is needed to act
The bifilar choke is needed to act as a switch, my best guess... This way he uses the magnetic energy derived as a switch, my best guess... This way he uses the magnetic energy derived from thefrom the resonant line current into forming the other pulse by
resonant line current into forming the other pulse by letting the field to letting the field to collapse just after the total discharge of the collapse just after the total discharge of the wfc whenwfc when current is a maximun. As diodes don't allow the current to
current is a maximun. As diodes don't allow the current to change direction the other choke will catch the field change direction the other choke will catch the field and rechargeand recharge
the capacitor with the same polarity. Basically the bifilar choke allow a
the capacitor with the same polarity. Basically the bifilar choke allow a mechanism where you maintain resonance on amechanism where you maintain resonance on a capacitor inductor system but you only charge the capacitor in one direction... You need a switch for
capacitor inductor system but you only charge the capacitor in one direction... You need a switch for that... two of them...that... two of them...
stan hided all... and there are other way to
stan hided all... and there are other way to connect things other than stan showed consequently.connect things other than stan showed consequently.
Tony I agree, that's pretty much exactly what I have found as well,
Tony I agree, that's pretty much exactly what I have found as well, resonance between L1 and cell, and L2 restrict amp flowresonance between L1 and cell, and L2 restrict amp flow and allows you to produce high voltage across the cell
and allows you to produce high voltage across the cell
Tony,I basically agree with most of what you stated.As for resonance taking place between choke 1 and the cell
Tony,I basically agree with most of what you stated.As for resonance taking place between choke 1 and the cell is whereis where I see it differently.Yes resonance will take place
I see it differently.Yes resonance will take place there,but most of the resonance is in choke coil there,but most of the resonance is in choke coil 1 itself.The capacitance1 itself.The capacitance in the choke is far greater
in the choke is far greater than the cell.When you tune into resonance,disconnect the cell and see what happens.You willthan the cell.When you tune into resonance,disconnect the cell and see what happens.You will see a voltage drop and the frequency will
see a voltage drop and the frequency will need to be reajusted to need to be reajusted to get it back.This happens because you removed the smallget it back.This happens because you removed the small capacitance of the cell,but it will still
capacitance of the cell,but it will still resonate without the cell.resonate without the cell.
Choke 2 is needed to give
Choke 2 is needed to give you the the opposite voltage potential of you the the opposite voltage potential of choke 1.And I do believe you are onto choke 1.And I do believe you are onto something with thesomething with the 180 degree phase shift for choke 2.I have never thought about putting the
180 degree phase shift for choke 2.I have never thought about putting the negative choke out of phase.You lit a light bulb innegative choke out of phase.You lit a light bulb in my head over that one.I will be
my head over that one.I will be testing that out when I get my testing that out when I get my new coils wound.new coils wound.
Don Don
the bottom of the secondary isn't connected to a
the bottom of the secondary isn't connected to a ground at all, it is tground at all, it is t otally isolated and floating. You can test this Va+Vb with aotally isolated and floating. You can test this Va+Vb with a basic +12v and -12v power supply. Just take and connect a voltage meter to
basic +12v and -12v power supply. Just take and connect a voltage meter to the two outputs, positive lead to +ve the two outputs, positive lead to +ve and negativeand negative lead to -ve and you will get 24v.
lead to -ve and you will get 24v.
have tested this with my
have tested this with my VIC Transformer and at a certain frequency the voltage will got 180* out of VIC Transformer and at a certain frequency the voltage will got 180* out of phase and the voltagephase and the voltage will peak! Here is a
will peak! Here is a simulation of 180* out of phase voltage, please tell me where simulation of 180* out of phase voltage, please tell me where I am wrong at with this.I am wrong at with this.
If you take a center tap
If you take a center tap transformer, and use the center tap as your ground referance,you will see +12 volts transformer, and use the center tap as your ground referance,you will see +12 volts on one side and -on one side and -12 volts on the other side.Now when you take
12 volts on the other side.Now when you take a ready from the +12 volts leg a ready from the +12 volts leg to the -12 volt leto the -12 volt le g you get 24 volts.This is what Ig you get 24 volts.This is what I think Tony is trying to point out,and this is
think Tony is trying to point out,and this is how I see it myself.how I see it myself.
Don Don
t operates just like
t operates just like the power supply in a computer....you have a +12v rail and -the power supply in a computer....you have a +12v rail and -12v rail and you can combine them to give
12v rail and you can combine them to give you +24v. Here's another simulationyou +24v. Here's another simulation with the two voltages 180* out phase and you will get
with the two voltages 180* out phase and you will get the same results.the same results.
In the earlier diagram where you changed the polarities of
In the earlier diagram where you changed the polarities of the output of the VICthe output of the VIC Transformer isn't correct. This is
Transformer isn't correct. This is Stan's diagram from Birth of Stan's diagram from Birth of New Technology...heNew Technology...he has the output labeled B+ and
has the output labeled B+ and
B-This is the way the polarity should be,
This is the way the polarity should be, unlike the way you have it labeled iunlike the way you have it labeled i n yourn your diagram. You can't have two
diagram. You can't have two