CONTENIDO A Hasta 600 V nominales inclusive

Bold - Interviewer (I)

Italic - Female partner (F) Plain - Male partner (M)

Um. Right, so I, as I, sort of, started to say, I guess the jumping off point is probably to hear your reactions to, um, my attempt at a summary of our first conversation. Um, but I’m very happy to, sort of, go in whatever, ever other directions you feel would be, sort of, useful or informative, really. Um, I’ve got a few things that I’d perhaps want to follow up a bit more, which are kind of related to the points here, but may not neatly fall in to any of the categories necessarily. Um. I suppose, you know, we were saying that it was back in August that we had our first conversation, so, er, I suppose round about five months ago, um, and with that mind I was wondering what it, what it was like, er, to, sort of, get a summary of that interview before. I wonder how you, how you, sort of, found that in a way, um...?

After you!

Um. I actually found it quite useful to remember kind of where we were at that point. It was quite nice to have a stake in the ground, um, as it were, to kind of, er, and have it kind of detailed, er, written down [Mm], kind of where we were in developing our relationship and our kind of mechanisms for coping with, um, the kind of various, um, episodes, I suppose you could say. Um, and we’ve had, you know, four, five months since then, um, and looking back and being able to kind of compare where we are now to where we were then is

probably quite a good [Mm], a good thing for us to be able to do. I mean, we don’t normally

[Yeah] kind of take that kind of stock really. We kind of every now and again say something

like, I don’t know, you know, “When we first met” or “Six months after that” or “Last Christmas”. The kind of the big highlights [Mm]. But they’re all based on, kind of, what we thought we remember of the time and not really anything, kind of, written down. Where it’s really good to get a, an external view of where we were and kind of see it all again and say,

OK [Right], this is fact or fiction or, you know, an external view of how we thought we

were doing [Mm] and it’s just good to be able to see that. So for me it’s a, it’s quite eye opening to, kind of, think, “Oh right, OK. That’s where we were”. And then, kind of, think forward to today and this is where we are now and what the differences are.

Sure. So, a, sort of, kind of, historical document almost. Er...

Yeah, but it’s not, it’s not just, it’s not just historical for the sake of it just being a point in time. And I think I can hopefully say for both us, certainly for myself, that there’s been some progress [Mm] from there to here, which may have perhaps been facilitated a bit by the experience we went through and also having to, kind of, sit and think about it and talk about

it [Mm] in much more clinical black and white terms, rather than just kind of dealing with it.

Um...

That would certainly be very interesting to hear about if that was OK. But, um, perhaps I’ll ask the same question to F about how you found//

Yeah. Similar [Getting that. Yeah], um. Um... I wouldn’t, without this I wouldn’t have been able to remember much o f what we said[Mm. Mm]. Um. But reading it now I think oh, you know, it’s all coming back to me. I t’s not like, um, you know, I think it’s fairly accurate

[Right] summary o f the conversation, the interview that we had[Right]. But yeah, same as

M, I just think God, it’s... I think that’s why I thought it must be such a long time ago because [Mm] it’s almost not relevant now.

Because it feels like things have changed so much?

Yeah. And that’s fo r me on a personal level, obviously [Yeah], because I ’m now o ff my anti­ depressants[Right], um, and feel, you know, ten times better in myself But also, as you’ve said, from the point o f view o f our relationship, it’s really good to, kind of, think, God! It almost seems like we were really naive and (laughs) and kind o f really young with each other then, but I feel like w e’ve moved on a lot since then. So I mean exactly the same as M

[Mm], I just think it’s a really nice stake in the ground.

Yeah, yeah. Was there... did you, I suppose it’s perhaps slightly diffîcult to know in some respects, I mean, there’s a sense of things having changed for you, um, so some of

this may not represent how things are now [Mm].Did you read any of this and have a

sense that, that I’d got it wrong, in a way, that in trying to, sort of, summarise or bring out hits that didn’t, it didn’t map with what you thought, with your memory of what you were saying at the time?

Not that I can remember, no.

No.

Er, no, not for me either. I mean it, as I said before, it’s a really good, kind of, black and white written down synopsis of, kind of, how we were feeling and what we were doing at the time. So it’s, I don’t, I don’t, you know, nothing here, um, seems, kind of, odd or sticks out as being, “Oh, I didn’t say that. I don’t remember feeling like that” [No] [Mm]. It’s, it’s a really good representation I think.

It made me laugh! (laugh)

Right!

Why did it make you laugh?

Well, I can remember really clearly saying things like, um, the having a go thing[Yeah]. I don’t know, it’s Just funny now. I mean, I don’t disagree with that. I would still say the same thing [Mm]. / would describe it in the same way. I suppose, you know, had you come round today and our relationship wasn’t going so well or whatever, then this might actually be quite difficult to look at. But because things have been going well[Sure] it feels quite good//

It was quite sort of [to read it]positive...

Yeah. And I think it was a good experience fo r us to have gone through [Mm] just the actual physical sitting down with you and talking [Right] and having that opportunity, which we

don’t, well, / suppose we could make it ourselves, but we haven’t done. Um, I think that was a really helpful process fo r us to go through.

But I don’t think since August we’ve just, kind of, we went to sleep the evening of being interviewed by [I] woke up today and it was all hunky-dory [No]. I think there’s been [Yeah, you know, w e’ve worked at it, but], there’s been, yeah, there’s been... It’ll still be part of a journey.

Mm. Mm

And it still is. We ’re still on it.

So, that’s quite a, it’s quite good to be able to say well, you know, “There’s, here’s another station, here’s another station” or [Mm] “W e’re going backwards a bit” or whatever. So it’s good.

Great. Um, I’m thinking that some of my questions might be more diffîcult to answer

given that things have changed from where they [Mm]were now. I mean, I’ll perhaps

explore some of them with you in any case, but, um, maybe a more sensible starting point is then for us to talk about, um, how things have changed in relation to perhaps

hand that over to you, to you really, however you want to, to answer that. Um...

How do you mean? Do you mean in terms of, um, episodes, in terms of coping, in terms o f... Is there, is there a structure, or do we ju st...

Well, I [talk, talk round things?], I don’t know whether... There’s a sense that some of

these things represented, um, your ways of managing things, say, five months ago, and that, um, either some of them have become irrelevant now, um, I don’t know because perhaps F is feeling better, or because you found other ways of managing things. I’m not, I suppose I’m, that would be something to...

I don’t think they’ve become irrelevant. I think one of the good things I’ve noticed that F needs less of, kind of, prompting, if that’s a phrase to describe kind of my role previously

[Right] in taking the step to do something [Right]. So if we take an example of we went to

visit your mum and dad and, you know, what your mum said and [Mm], you know, you were, not visibly, I would say, upset by it, but there was something in there [You knew I was]. Yeah, I knew you were. But you weren’t kicking everything or anything like that! You were fine about it, or not visibly upset, rather. Um, and then you came back and you... what seemed to me as you, kind of, thought about it and decided what your plan of action was going to be, then you just did it, is, is different to how maybe [Mm] it would have been before. I think maybe before something that might have triggered something for you to, kind of, get, to take what happened [Mm] and, and do something with that inside yourself and then cause something else to happen to you externally, which I’m then thinking, well, I don’t really know what’s going on [Mm]. And then start one of these, you know [Yeah], one of these types of episodes. So I think you, you just dealt with that without, you now ... You, kind of, checked with me to, kind of, say, “Well, I’m, kind of, feeling this” or “I didn’t feel so good about that”. Um, “This is what I’m going to do about it. What do you think?” Which is, and I’m just like, “Well, yeah, that’s cool”. So, do you see what I’m saying? [Mm] So that’s I think that’s different to how maybe it might have been [Yeah] previously. And part of that’s maybe due to, um, speaking to your, your HD about those kinds of issues//

HD is [Head Doctor] Head Doctor.

Right!

Sorry!

I ’m not allowed to call him a shrink!

Yeah, so we call him, call him head doctor! (laugh) Speaking to HD about it on a regular basis and then just formulating, you know, yourself just a way of, kind of, getting on with it. So I think that’s, that’s changed, um, which I’m, you know. I’m impressed. I think that’s really good.

What’s your sense of that, F?

Yeah, I agree. Um. God, it’s a really dijficult question to answer because actually so much has changed.

Yeah. Sure.

Um. I mean. I ’ve leamt a lot more about how to deal with things m yself so that perhaps it doesn’t get to the stage where M needs to do the kind o f things that we were mentioning before[Yes] I mean I, the big thing fo r me in this was the discomfort o f getting a slap around the face, but [Mm], a mental slap around the face [Mm] but, um, the kind o f impact that that had was really good[Yes]. But I don’t feel that I ’ve needed that so much, partly because... partly because I haven’t been feeling so low anyway[Mm-hm], um, maybe because I haven’t... I ’ve been able to control that process a bit better because I recognise it a bit more. So I can, kind of, stop it before it get, you know, before I start to kind o f plummet too much. Um[So], but also[Yeah] I think I, you know, have leamt to trust you more and

more as well. So I can, it’s easier fo r me to say, you know, “This is a, this is pissing me o ff and I want to do something about it”. That, I don’t know, just comes much more naturally.

That, that reminds me of something that, um, M said in the first interview, um, it may even be written down in one of these sections somewhere here, um, about hoping that

you’d be able to get to a stage [Mm]where you could say that this is, you know, this is

pissing me off [Yeah] or, um, without, sort of, things needing to move, sort of, so [Yeah]

so far along. Is that...?

Yeah. [Is that...?] I won’t say w e’re there 100% but...

No. I think, I think that’s, that’s the biggest change for me, um, in being, I mean, reflecting what F is saying, in being trusted that I’m not going to explode necessarily or I’m not going to, you know, just have a big issue with something you’re saying, when you’ve got as much right as anybody else to say, “Well actually this is how I think or feel” or don’t or whatever

[Mm]. And we should, and we, kind of, just kind of get on with that. Um, and we don’t kind of hold any grudges or take it out on each other too much or anything, which is going to be, kind of, have a lasting, kind of, effect [Mm]. I mean, we kind of get a bit, I mean, you know, I think I said to you (inaudible) I just, just go really quiet and I shut up for a bit and then it’ll be fine. But it’s not a big, you know, we don’t, kind of, exhibit that kind of behaviour where we’re very, um, I don’t know, disrespectful of each other [Mm]. And if one of us is in a mood or unhappy or whatever, then that’s fine. It’s OK to be in a mood and unhappy, it’s not a big deal. You know, as long as it’s not, er, a symptom of something else or a long lasting thing which has to be kind of more looked at. But if it’s just, you just, kind of, wake up and you’re feeling a bit, well, you’ve eaten something, or you just feel tired today, whatever it is, then you just, so what? It’s like, so what? No big deal. Um, and we’ll kind of both allow each other, you know, “I don’t want to get out of bed today” or “I don’t really want go to trapeze today” or [Yeah] whatever it is. And it’s kind of allowing each other to, kind of, get on with it, I think.

It’s, kind of, bit... communicating your sort of emotional experience but being quite

dependent on trusting the other person’s reaction [Mm] [Mm]in relation to that, that it

won’t become, um, sort of more than an issue that it is [Mm] in a way. That it’s...

Sometimes we find we actually feel the same, but we just haven’t said it to each other. We both, kind of, don’t want to say. I mean, you know, every, every week we tend to go to a particular, to a particular type of sport, trapeze, for instance on a Sunday. And then I’ll get up on a Sunday morning and think, “Oh god I really can’t do this” but I don’t want to let F down [Mm] so I’ll just kind of go along with her, “Right, we’re getting ready” [Mm]. And F, you know, we’ll get to, I don’t know, quarter to two, we’ve got to leave by two, and F will go, “I don’t really want to do this” and I’ll go, “Oh great! I don’t want to do it either!”. And we just don’t do it! But we haven’t, do you know what I mean? But it’s, and it’s not a big deal [Sure] but you still, kind of, feel, or I still, kind of, feel a bit, sometimes, I want to ... don’t want to let her down [Mm] but it’s easier for me to say, “I don’t really want to do this”. And if she says we are going to do it, we’re not going to do it, then we just, you know, we’ll cope with it at the time. It’s not a big saga. It’s not a big drama.

We don’t have dramas.

Yeah, damn! We should have a few more dramas! (laughter) Well, we do//

Well, yeah, w e’ve had a few whoppers but [Yeah, we’ve had, yeah] not recently!

(inaudible) Well, (inaudible), I mean there’s been some things happen... there is, kind of, the other side of this is [Yeah] in, in, there’s been some things happening in my family life, so my sisters and my mum and dad and stuff, my brother, which F has been the support person for me in those circumstances. Whereas [Sure] maybe four five months ago there were some things happening for F which I was helping her with. So that’s kind of [Mm]

um, or F was, kind of, saying that she didn’t want to, kind of, see it all being F ’s [Mm] in the, in the, F in a spotlight and me just kind of helping. It’s kind of turned it the other way round as well. So I think that’s been quite a useful re-balancing of the whole, the whole thing.

Yeah, definitely.

Sure. Sure. I mean, ah, there does... and I think, um, one or other or perhaps both of

you said at the end of the last interview that communication seems to be fairly near the