ESCULTURAS NOVEDOSAS: 58

In addition to my interviews with residents in the communities, I carried out 24 structured formal interviews with key actors associated with the Green River carbon-offsetting project. These included journalists, researchers from the state University, politicians, representatives from government departments, and the Green Action Institute (see the appendix 1 for more details). All of these interviewees were given an interview schedule ahead of time. This had three purposes: to allow participants to prepare answers and perhaps increase their willingness to participate, and help me to feel more relaxed interviewing (Harvey, 2011, Creswell, 2013, Stephens, 2009). I recorded these

interviews in Portuguese with a Dictaphone and transcribed and translated them afterwards. This group could be divided into two groups, elites I met in the hotel and professionals based in Cuiabá .

75 As already noted my gatekeeper for the interviews with professionals in Cuiabá was Dr Carla Valentini, but I also had access to local elites at the hotel, where Robson was effectively the gatekeeper. In the data I obtained from most of these interviews, there was very little personal opinion and for the most part, the information provided went little beyond data I found in documentary research. Interviewees were typically only available for one interview, and significantly I was unable to obtain a follow-up interview with the Green Action Institute. The only follow up interview I had was with the former head of Secopa who frequently visited the hotel. Overall, gaining access to this group was harder than the semi-structured formal interviews.

Qualitative text books often discuss formal interviews as the researcher in the position of relative power (Pile, 1991, Barbour, 2014, Creswell, 2013, Hennink et al., 2011, Jenner et al., 2004, Mangen, 1999, Stephens, 2009). However, recently, increasing attention has been given to elites within both human geography and organisational studies (Harvey, 2011) and there is now some discussion around the challenges involved (Welch et al., 2002, Smith, 2006, Richards, 1996). McDowell (1998) for example, discusses how in her research in the city of London she took on a number of roles depending on the interviewee, from ‘playing dumb’ for older figures to ‘brusquely efficient’ with older women (Ibid:2138), and Smith (2006) found that in her experience some respondents from a less senior position wanted to exert authority over her during the interview.

I experienced two main types of response from professional and elite participants. The first was that I was seen as in danger and in need of nurturing. Interviewees (CS1, 6 and 7) commented on how brave I was to come to Brazil alone when I did not speak the language or know anyone. They would then ask what my mother thought of me being in Brazil, one (CS7) asked why I did not have my boyfriend with me, not even asking if I had one. In other cases, I was seen as a young, educated middle-class student who had left leaning political beliefs due to my ‘protected’ upbringing. This was particularly evident in a conversation between Robson, the former head of Secopa and Blairo Maggi. They were discussing the protests surrounding the World Cup and blamed the ideologies of young people; as I fitted this category

76 they were happy to suggest that living with poor people at the hotel would educate me in the political and economic system and then I would understand why the poor should not receive our attention. Perhaps the most difficult interview was with the Green Action Institute. During the interview the manager, technician and secretary all answered my questions. The following extract from my field notes explores the body language and tensions evident in this interview:

‘The manager was about 5ft 5 but had total control of the room, she strode into the office in black patent stiletto heels and a tight, figure hugging dress. Her hair was dyed a platinum blonde and wouldn’t have been out of place walking around Canary Wharf, yet she was an environmental technician in Cuiabá. She was cool in her body language and gave an impression of fierceness which I would not like to challenge, her speech was fast and abrupt. Her fingers were littered with gold rings, I counted three individual gold rings on one finger! Her iPhone 5 was constantly bleeping as we were talking and when she wasn’t checking her phone I felt she made an uncomfortable amount of eye contact with me particularly.

The second woman wore flat sandals and jeans. Her loose fitting bright orange top was plain as were her hands. The woman was more welcoming than the manager and gave the impression, to me at least, that she wanted to talk. Whenever she spoke she had a habit of looking towards the manager as if to ensure she was saying the right thing.’ (Extract from field notes: reflections on interviews 21/5/14).

Among the elite actors interviewed through contacts at the hotel, the most significant was with the former governor of Mato Grosso and current Agriculture Minister, Blairo Maggi. This interview was arranged by the former head of Secopa, who had previously worked for the Maggi group and the two were good friends. He invited Blairo Maggi to fish at the hotel and to discuss Robson’s idea for a new fly fishing business at Maggi’s new 5* resort. Given this context, I had conflicting roles. Blairo Maggi does not conduct many interviews with the media and is very wary of environmental researchers. In 2005 he received the ‘golden chainsaw’ from Greenpeace due to the damaging impact of his agri-businesses and had an international reputation for his anti-environmental stance. Mikecz (2012) suggests constructing a barrier between an elite and the media is common with elite actors and therefore it was quite a coup to secure this interview. However, I had arranged my accommodation with Robson, and my relationship with him was key to my fieldwork. If I asked questions that were deemed inappropriate, I would have

77 jeopardised Robson’s potential business plan, and my relationship with Robson, and possibly my

research project.

In effect, as Mikecz (2012) warns, this elite interview was little more than a public relations exercise for Blairo Maggi, who did not stray from available official versions. My questions were non-probing and neutral and I collected little new data. One striking feature, however, was the way Blairo Maggi took an interest in my personal background throughout the interview, and towards the end our roles almost reversed and I became the interviewee (Harvey, 2011). The questions I asked him about conservation and the Pantanal were answered quickly and then he reversed the question and asked my opinion. Given the context, I almost certainly responded with a very watered down critique of neoliberal conservation. Although this interview did not contribute much new data it did have other

consequences. Afterwards Blairo added me as friend on his personal Facebook account and asked me to stay in touch. More significantly, Robson and Blairo Maggi discussed the business plan and they now run a fly fishing business from Blairo’s new resort. Later Robson bought me a bottle of wine and said that Blairo Maggi would not have been so open to the idea of creating the business if he had not enjoyed his day, which was partly because of my interview. Due to this ‘symbolic’ interview I had contributed to the creation of enhanced networks of elites within Mato Grosso!

While most of the key actors, accessed through gatekeepers stuck to their organisational scripts and narratives. I did make some contacts independently as a result of serendipity (Baxter and Chua, 1998) and these often proved invaluable. The following is an extract from my field notes and recounts how I met Marcelo, the mayor of Barrão de Magaço. At the time, my brother was visiting me during my second fieldwork trip and I had taken him to the town of Barrão de Magaço :

‘Arriving on the river bank, the shops and avenue were as I remembered from last year; even the fish restaurant with the loud music was as busy as I remembered. The freshly caught fish being served to a great mixture of families, extended families, couples and friends. Then, Conor [my brother] starts laughing hysterically. ‘Lauren, look at that bloke, what an idiot, he forgot to tie his boat up and its drifting down the river!’.

78 Marcio, one of the 5 garcons and the most colourful character from last year was the man

in the river. Still laughing, I tried explaining to Conor that I know him and maybe he’ll take us out on the boat. ‘Of course I can Lauren, just give me a little while and I’ll come back. I need to go upstream, but I’ll come back and we can catch some Crocodiles’ was Marcio’s response when I asked.

Excitedly me and Conor sat down to lunch, discussing what we would actually do if Marcio caught a crocodile. After 2 ½ hours, it was becoming increasingly clearer that Marcio wasn’t coming back. Whilst both of us are used to being stared at by now, the lack of sleep and the heat was making us more irritable. This was not helped by an old man ‘who looks like he should be on the cover of a National Geographic magazine’ – according to Conor, sat beside us and kept trying to talk to us. Conor, not understanding and myself, understanding very little due to his accent, tried to talk to him politely.

‘Oi, oi, vem ca. Conversa com os touristas’ the old man shouted to a very white, very well dressed middle-aged man passing on the other side of the street. ‘Oh no! not again’ I thought silently, I just want to have a conversation with my brother. It was one of the very few times we had been alone. ‘Oi, boa tarde’ said the man, ‘my name is Marcelo, I am the profeitura (mayor) of Barrão de Magaço’ (extract from field notes. 18th August 2015). Although I met Marcelo late in my fieldwork, he became an important informant. He was able to confirm residents’ accounts of the Green River Project that residents in Barranco Alto I and II gave me. He was particularly well placed to do this as he had a holiday home in Barranco Alto as well as Barrão de Magaço. In addition he provided information regarding the small-scale agricultural processing projects in Barranco Alto and Barra do Aricá, described in chapter 5.