Lesiones incipientes

It will be examined if non-rational, non consensual deliberation is occurring in forums with and without a core group of posters and have a majority of two or more replied-to posts. Non-rational, non-consensual deliberation consists of the following attributes: conflict / division, domination, exclusion via social objectivity & rationalism, and heterogeneous opinions. As can be seen in table 8.3, Non-rational, non consensual deliberation is not occurring in full. On the whole, both forums with and without a core group of voters are mainly heterogeneous (individuals have differing opinions) and they

contain conflict e.g. posters are insulting one another and, or mocking topics within forum.

Table 8.3

Forums without a core group of posters

Forum Heterogeneous

(Disagreement) conflict exclusion domination

Tomatopages Y Y Greenville Y Y Oxfordshire forums Y Madison Y Y StPaul Y Y onMilwaukee Y Y IWight Y Y MTPleasantdc Y Kildare/discussi on Y Y Huntington- Babylon Y Y

Forums with a core group of posters

Forum Heterogeneous

(Disagreement) Conflict exclusion domination

StLouie Y Y

Roanoke Y

Portglasgow Santacruzsentine

l Y Y

Brighton & Hove Y

Cincinnati Y Y

Labbock Y Y

Bloomington Y Y

Roseville Y Y

Warrington Y

Y – Yes there is presence of attribute in thread. A blank space indicators no presence of attribute.

Fig 8.2 provides an example of both disagreement and conflict within a section of a thread from the Madison forum (a forum without a core group of posters). Yellow

highlighted sections indicate a participant using disagreement and red highlighted sections indicate a participant using conflict.

Fig 8.2

The city will be trying out new parking meters that take credit card and debit cards, as well as coins. They also can be programmed to have different rates at different times of the day. These meters cost $10,000 each. I thought the city was on a tight budget(?)

Quote: “MADISON, Wis. No quarters for the parking meter? If you're in Madison next month, that might not be a problem. The Madison Parking Utility will be testing new parking meters that accept credit and debit cards. The experiment will start May First and last for 90 days at two downtown locations near the Capitol. Drivers will still be able to use coins if they prefer. Instead of a line of gray meters, the new system will use a single battery-powered box that controls up to 14 spaces. Each system costs ten-thousand dollars but the city hopes to recoup those costs with collection and maintenance savings. The spaces will cost one-dollar-25-cents per hour but the city could change the rates at different times of the day depending on demand”.

Duh - if the meters MAKE MONEY then they will IMPROVE the city's tight budget. How long will it take?

What difference does that make? They either make money or they don't.

If the city is paying $10,000 for new meters, they'd better make money! But the easiest thing to do is just use the ones we have, then we won't be out the

$10,000/meter.

In other words, $10,000 per fourteen parking spaces, or $714 per space. There's a difference. Even at only 8 hours use per day per parking space, at the rate of

$1.25/hour, each space could generate enough money for the system to pay for itself within the trial time frame. Since the new system takes credit/debit cards in addition to coin/cash -- like a few of the downtown ramps -- that may be a better enticement to motorists to choose metered street parking, especially if they are low on coins.

No, they aren't paying for themselves at this rate. The old meters would still be making that money. To pay for themselves they have to make more money than the old meters.

It's always cheaper to use the ramps - $1/hour or less. And they can change the amount charged on the new meters at different times of the day, so who knows how much you'll have to pay? AND it always costs more to use a credit card - there's fees, etc.

Any meter that charges more than $.25 is going to make ME laugh. Consider how many people are not paying their meter fare ANYWAYS. And stab me for being one of them. I am never parked ANYWHERE more that 15-20 minutes-- and I've never been "meter-maided" for it. In fact, with the amount they are spending on new meters (which will be JUST AS EFFECTIVE-- just cost more) couldn't they just hire a couple new meter maids? Wouldn't that, in fact, solve the problem better? In other

words, aren't saps like you guys paying MORE for jackholes like me?

How do you get away with that? I've had meters run out and gotten a ticket when just 5 minutes has passed. The UW is really strict. At the Union parking lot they ticket pretty often. And if you have more than 3 outstanding tickets with them, they tow your car. I remember sitting by the windows near the parking lot and watching cars being towed.

8.2 Conclusion

This research argues that rational deliberation redefined is not occurring within these forums because there is no equality of opportunity for citizens to participate (forums do not contain all citizens’ opinions that debate affects); no transformation is occurring; and no agreement “consensus” is obtained. Thus, as rational deliberation redefined is not occurring within the forums the alternative hypothesis (local political online forums cannot support rational deliberation redefined) was confirmed.

There is one forum Santacruzsentinel that supports mixed discourses and modes of communication. This forum has the following attributes: rational debate, personal experience, reciprocity, conflict, reflection and transformation. As mixed discourses and modes of communication does not require equality of opportunity for citizens to

participate, or consensus, it is argued here that there is the potential for it to exist within local political online forums. However, this does not mean that Santacruzsentinel (a non- participatory forum which supports a category of deliberation) supports strong

democracy. Strong democracy does not require direct democracy (Barber, 1984), but it should contain some form of participation i.e. partial participatory or pseudo participatory and Santacruzsentinel does not.

In terms of non-rational, non-consensual deliberation we can see in tables 8.1 and 8.2 personal experience and rational debate are present in forums and as we see in table 8.3 there is a lot of conflict which suggests that personal experience and rational debate are not co-existing comfortably with one another which results in agreement (consensus) not being attained. With the latter said it can only be suggested that non-rational, non-

consensual deliberation is occurring within these forums, because, it was not possible to prove if participants’ personal experiences (via conflict) were excluded by rational debate and thus dominated (hegemony) within these forums. Without this proof the potential for mixed discourses and modes of communication occurring within forums is confirmed, however, another form of discussion present within these forums was identified.