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This theme captured participants’ suggestion that a person needs to approach others with a stance of cultural humility, bringing openness and respect. Participants suggested we all need to be willing to admit we don’t know things, and to acknowledge we all make mistakes. Several participants suggested that cultural humility provides a

framework which allows space for our mistakes, and space for us to be continually learning.

“Good Intentions or Microaggressions?” Francis and Amari both spoke about

the good intentions of others; Francis stated “there was always a good intention of being educated in relation to different cultures.” There were “… a lot of people who had good intentions, but didn't seem to have the awareness, or the ability” to follow through. However, Amari cautioned that good intentions are not enough if the person does not further examine their actions. Amari remarked that often people are:

well-meaning but they’re really saying things and doing things that are micro- aggressions, and it’s happening on all levels. It’s happening for the students with their peers, it’s happening for some of the clinicians with their colleagues or work supervisors, and it’s happening for the educators with their colleagues and their supervisors.

“I Still Make Mistakes.” Both Francis and Morgan spoke about the importance

of acknowledging their own mistakes and of learning from students. Morgan shared: They [the students] said that’s really important that you told us that you still make mistakes … there was [sic] many times when I was corrected, and I had to really like think, ‘Oh my goodness, I just made a mistake again,’ but without like

throwing it out of proportion and so that was a really great learning experience for all of us, because we were all going through that at the exact same time and all making mistakes and all falling into [old] patterns.

“We Don’t Know What We Don’t Know.” Several participants stated that it is

that a person’s assumption of knowledge often decreases that person’s drive to seek knowledge about cultures and how to interact with people from other cultures. Bei found that too often “people are already assuming they know everything about other cultures and how to work with other cultures.” Amari suggested that continual, respectful learning is essential: “There’s like no hard and fast rule as to how to go about engaging in this work, I guess. Apart from just really coming to it with this ‘I don’t know’; [because] there’s so much to know.” Morgan suggested that admitting what we don’t know might be particularly challenging to music therapists because of:

a need to claim competence because of a… defense mechanism against everyone who has ever probably challenged what kind of profession they are doing. … so there’s probably a heightened kind of ‘Yes, I’m competent, and I’m really good at what I do and my profession [of music therapy] is worth it.’

However, as Bei stated, if a person thinks they have reached multicultural competence, there is the danger that they “think they are not racist but then still perpetuate all of these [racist] behaviors or all these actions.”

“Bring Humility, Desire to Learn, and Respect.” All of the participants

mentioned that one must approach clients with humility and respect. Participants

described this as cultural humility, cultural responsiveness, or cultural reflexivity: coming to the client with genuine curiosity, a desire to understand, and the humility of assuming you know nothing about that client and their culture. Alex described the humility they bring to encounters with clients and families:

cultural humility… being able to say I don’t know and to learn and to be strong enough to be able to say that to my client, to their families, to be like, all right so

I’m really good at music therapy, but I’m not very good at your culture. … I don’t know anything about your culture and these are the things that music therapy can do for your child. Can you tell me more about music and your culture so I can make this work for your child better? Being able to be in that space, and … more of a co-creating with my client, or with the family in therapy, and not having to be the one in charge.

Quinn described cultural responsiveness as responding rather than reacting to the client: Like again when you see a Black person is like, oh, hip-hop, Motown, gospel, [that would be] … reactive as opposed to … responding to what their preferences are and you’re responding to what needs arise as the session progresses.

Bei suggested that an approach of cultural humility is needed no matter where one practices, sharing that when traveling to the country where they were born:

I would have to do my homework in cultural humility. … about how to approach maybe your own community… from a cultural humility viewpoint, [rather] than White healthcare system viewpoints. … [This is] not an international student specific problem; we are sending American music therapists out into the world to practice outside of America. Are we going to impose American health values upon South Africa?

Both Amari and Francis suggested that music therapists should be self-aware so that they know what cultural values and beliefs they are bringing into any relationship. Francis acknowledged that this can be challenging:

How much are we willing to put aside what we think we know, to listen to somebody else’s needs or experiences? And I think that can be, that can be hard

no matter where you started… a lot of times individuals have to do a lot of self- reflection to get to a point where they can have the I think, open mindedness, the awareness, the sensitivities to not put their agenda ahead of somebody else’s and I think that’s a lifelong challenge for everybody at varying degrees.