Ungulados

June 17, 2005

Victor Thorn: I got The New Jerusalem: Zionist Power in America a few weeks ago and it’s phenomenal. We couldn’t wait to be here with you today. So to start off, I think the most vital point that every person in this country needs to know is found right on page one of the introduction of this book, where you say that the two great tragedies of this still young century are 9-11, of course, and also the American invasion of Iraq, which is a direct consequence of U.S. policy in the Middle East which is dic-tated by the Israeli lobby. My first question is: tell us why it’s so vitally important to understand this fundamental notion.

Michael Collins Piper: It’s very simple, Victor. As I point out in the book, here we are involved in this bloody, insane, non-sensical war in Iraq that is only making the United States enemies around the world, and we had 3,000 American victims of a ter-rorist tragedy that has been attributed to Middle Eastern terror-ists. Now frankly, I have very serious questions about who ulti-mately was responsible for 9-11, but just for the sake of argu-ment, let’s accept the president’s claim that we were attacked by angry Muslims from the Middle East.

In my lifetime, there have been two things that I have des-perately fought against since I was old enough to think political-ly. Number one: U.S. involvement in a war, particularly in the Middle East. I saw what happened in Vietnam, and I see no rea-son for anybody ever again to have to be subjected to the brutal-ity of war. It affected my own brother. He was a Vietnam veter-an, he never completely got over Vietnam, and his early death was a direct consequence of his Vietnam experience.

The other thing that I was very concerned about was terror-ist attacks in the United States; and lo and behold, we finally had one. And it’s all because of, I’m sorry to say, Israel. It has noth-ing to do with oil. It’s all about Israel, and it’s an obvious fact that we have a very powerful lobby in this country, whether we want to call it the Israeli lobby or pro-Israeli lobby or the Jewish lobby—

whatever you want to call it—the fact is that it exists. It’s not a conspiracy theory.

Some people say that’s a conspiracy theory or an old wives’

tale based upon the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which they say is a forgery. It’s not. It’s not a wives’ tale.

We have this powerful Israeli lobby, and the people who finance them are a very wealthy, highly influential group of people who happen to be Jewish. They’ve accumulated this power and wealth, and we are now in a position where we effectively have an elite few who can dictate our foreign policy. It’s a foreign policy that’s trying to advance the interests of another country! I find that extraordinary.

Lisa Guliani: Michael, we recently attended the OKC Bombing 10 Year Anniversary Day of Truth in Oklahoma City, along with your colleague from American Free Press, Pat Shan-nan. In your book, you point out how dozens of well-known pub-lic figures from all walks of life have been labeled anti-Semitic.

Well, subsequent to our return from Oklahoma City, we’ve since discovered that the ADL has listed that event, the Day of Truth, on their website’s “hate list”. Would you explain how the ADL acts as Thought Police for the Zionist elite in America?

Michael Collins Piper: That’s a very interesting question; and a question that’s posed in a very revealing context. I was aware that the ADL had, in fact, labeled that meeting a “hate” or “extremist”

type event, and I find that extraordinary in and of itself because I don’t think there was anybody at that event with the intent to defame any group of people, and that’s what the Anti-Defamation League claims it was trying to prevent—group defamation.

The event was just a group of sincere people who were trying to find out who murdered all of those people in Oklahoma City, and obviously we know that the official government story doesn’t hold up. So I find it very interesting that the Anti-Defamation League would position itself effectively as a defender of the government.

Actually, the Anti-Defamation League has an interesting his-tory. It started off—and I’m sorry to say this—because there were so many Jewish people involved in criminal activity in New York City back in the late 19th century. People started making unkind remarks about Jews, and that’s why they started the Anti-Defamation League, to counteract that because there were so many complaints by public officials and law enforcement.

Well, over the years, the Anti-Defamation League evolved into a very effective conduit and propaganda arm for the state of Israel after it was established. The ADL, of course, spies—liter-ally spies—on thousands and thousands of Americans. Even the FBI and the San Francisco Police Department conducted an extensive investigation into the ADL’s spying activities and dis-covered they had files on thousands of Americans. And not just people on the right wing, but a lot of folks who considered them-selves liberals thought the ADL was just out there spying on those evil Klansmen and Nazis, and it turned out they were spying on all sorts of people of all political stripes.

Basically, the ADL is a Thought Police. It is designed to pre-vent anyone from saying anything critical about the state of Israel, unless it’s approved by the ADL in advance. Anyone who even dares to mention the fact that the Israelis have immense power in this country is considered anti-Semitic. So that’s what the ADL is.

It is a Thought Police.

Victor Thorn: In your book, Final Judgment, you reveal that there was obviously tension between John Kennedy and David Ben Gurion, and everybody knows how Richard Nixon felt about the Jews. But in your new book, you also bring up revela-tions about Harry Truman, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and even

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James Baker on how they felt about the Jewish Lobby. Tell us a little bit about that.

Michael Collins Piper: I can tell you one thing—all of those people you’ve mentioned have been quoted in mainstream news sources as using some pretty foul language which I wouldn’t want to say on your show in reference to the power of the Jewish peo-ple in America vis-a-vis their influence, particularly on U.S. for-eign policy. Harry Truman—they discovered his private diaries—

and this is the guy who’s basically a hero of the Jewish people for his role in helping bring about the founding of the state of Israel.

Of course, he recognized the state of Israel and he’s always been a hero. But in his private diary, which was cited in The Washington Post, I’m going to read this quote: This is what Harry Truman, former President of the United States, said in his diary entry of July 21, 1947:

“The Jews have no sense of proportion nor do they have any judgment in world affairs. The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as displaced persons as long as the Jews get special treatment.

Yet, when they, the Jews that is, have power—phys-ical, financial or political—neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the underdog.”

Now, that’s a pretty strong statement. It’s certainly stronger than anything I have ever said, or a lot of people have ever said.

But I want to tell you something. Based upon my study of histo-ry—and I’m standing in my library—just in this room alone, I have about 6,000 books. I’m pretty well read. I would have to say that based upon my reading, what Harry Truman said is exactly true.

This is what we’re finding now.

We are finding that the ruling Jewish elites in America—and I’m not talking about every Jewish person now—I’m talking about

these big powerful Jewish elites with literally billions of dollars in their control who are using that influence because of their desire to advance the state of Israel. These people do not care how many American kids get butchered in Iraq. They do not care. This is of absolutely no concern to them. They are fully ready to get us into a war against Iran, against Syria, and I predict ultimately they’re going to try to figure out a way to invade Saudi Arabia. And that’s probably just the beginning.

These people are truly bloodthirsty—maybe bloodthirsty is not the word. It’s just that they don’t care. They know that American kids will be cannon fodder, and their kids won’t be.

Lisa Guliani: You’ve quoted Benjamin Ginsberg’s book, The Fatal Embrace, and in it he says that 75% of America’s foreign aid budget is dedicated to Israel’s security interests. So, Michael, do you think this figure would be shocking to most Americans?

Michael Collins Piper: You know; that’s funny … that’s an interesting point. The quick answer to that is YES, because a lot of people just don’t like foreign aid—period. And those who do like foreign aid think of it as helping the starving kids in Ethiopia.

They have these heartfelt, fond, very sentimental ideas. We’re a nice, rich, powerful country here in the United States and we give our money to starving people. Well, that isn’t who we give the money to.

Most of our foreign aid goes to Israel, and a substantial por-tion goes to Egypt to pay Egypt to be nice to Israel. The people of Israel, as I understand it, have one of the highest per capita lev-els of income vis a vis the rest of the world. And it’s precisely because of the United States propping up the state of Israel.

That’s a very, very wealthy little country only because the United States props it up.

You know all about the wonders of Israeli technology and Israeli science and Israeli this and Israeli that. It only exists because the United States puts the money in there. So, any other country of the same size could accomplish the same things with

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the United States propping it up. It’s essentially a beggar state.

It could not exist without the United States, yet the United States’

entire foreign policy at this time—whether it’s in the Middle East or anywhere in the world—is predicated on what is necessary for Israel’s best interests.

Victor Thorn: We recently watched a videotape that con-firms a lot of what you said in The New Jerusalem. This videotape took a historic look at the Jewish people and the state of Israel.

Basically what it says is that everywhere that the Jewish people have been throughout history, one of three things has happened.

They’ve either been enslaved, they’ve been driven out, or they’ve been killed en masse. To what do you attribute this; and also, has there ever been another group of people in history that has expe-rienced the same phenomenon?

Michael Collins Piper: Let me tell you what I told a Jewish friend of mine. I said to him: I look at your Jewish community newspapers, and most of the content of the newspapers is about who the Jews don’t like and who the Jews think don’t like them.

I used to have a subscription that was sent to me of a Polish community magazine, and I’ve seen lots of other ethnic communi-ty magazines. We had an editor at our old newspaper, The Spotlight, who had a lot of friends from Eastern Europe, so we got a lot of ethnic community publications. All these publications were very positive, very forward-looking. They had nice articles about the homeland and articles about community events com-memorating some famous Polish American or some famous Italian American, Slavic American, what have you.

But you read a Jewish newspaper, and it’s a panorama of anger and hatred for everybody. They’re constantly complaining.

So, if this is how the Jews act and think as a group—and that’s what community newspapers reflect, group think, so to speak—if this is how they’re acting in the United States today when they’ve got more power and influence than they’ve ever had in any other country in the world, even including Israel, for that matter, I

won-der how they were acting in the old days when they were getting kicked out of all these countries.

All groups at one time or another have had somebody who didn’t like them. But for some reason throughout history, the Jewish people have been kicked, at one time or another, out of every European country.

Lisa Guliani: Michael, there’s a new wave among the Zionist media elite like William Kristol. They’re setting a tone that if you’re critical of Israel, you’re not only anti-Semitic, but you’re also anti-American and anti-Christian. Would you comment briefly on this, please?

Michael Collins Piper: Well, that’s of course, absolute non-sense. This is the real propaganda line they’re trying to put out now, that (as you say) anyone who is Israel is therefore anti-American. That’s an extraordinary claim, and they’re also saying that if you’re Israel, you’re therefore automatically anti-Christian. That’s going to come as a big surprise to many of the Christian pastors who are critical of Israel. But as Harry Truman said, they have no sense of proportion, and these people will lie, and tell the biggest lies, and expect people to believe them.

As I always say, as far as U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is concerned, it’s a tissue of lies backed up by bullying, brute force, and lots of double standards to boot. If we see this in our U.S. Middle East policy, we’ll also find it in every facet of influence of these hard-line Zionists and their shills in the media.

Victor Thorn: “Deep Throat” has been in the news of late for the last few weeks, and it’s been revealed that it’s purportedly a gentleman named Mark Felt. One of the people who confirmed this is Bob Woodward, who has a tendency to only let this type of infor-mation out when the person isn’t able to confirm it. A good exam-ple was when he interviewed William Casey on his deathbed. Now, Mark Felt’s 91 years old, and he can’t really confirm a lot of this information. So, describe your take on “Deep Throat”; and also your take on him being a heavy smoker, which Mark Felt was not.

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Also, how he was very literate, which Mark Felt was not, and final-ly, James Jesus Angleton.

Michael Collins Piper: As far as Mark Felt is concerned, I don’t necessarily buy the idea that he was the only “Deep Throat,”

so to speak. There have been others who have been writing on this, and they all feel pretty strongly that it’s safe to suspect that there were other sources. But for whatever reason, and while Mark Felt may have been one of the primary sources, he probably was not just acting as a “lone angel.” In fact, he’s being portrayed as a hero of sorts. He probably was working for somebody else behind the scenes; and ironically, as I understand it, and I’m still looking into this, it’s very likely that Mark Felt would’ve probably had connec-tions to James Angleton, who you were referring to earlier.

Felt was involved in COINTELPRO, the then-secret FBI pro-gram used to infiltrate and disrupt political groups. James Angleton, at the CIA, was running his own “Operation Chaos,”

which was a similar, totally illegal program because the CIA was not supposed to be operating on American soil. James Angleton’s deputy in that program was a guy named Richard Ober; and Debra Davis, in her book entitled Katharine the Great on Katharine Graham of The Washington Post, makes a very strong case that Richard Ober could have been, and was, in her opinion, “Deep Throat.” As I said, it ties directly back to Mark Felt because Felt and Ober were both running related operations.

Ober was a deputy of James Angleton. Now, James Angleton was a known heavy smoker, a notorious chain-smoker, and also by the time he died, a raving alcoholic. He was quite delusional. Bob Woodward and Bernstein, in their book All the President’s Men, describe “Deep Throat” as having been a heavy smoker and drinker.

Now, that description does not fit Mark Felt. So, why they chose to use that description is of interest, because if they were lying about

“Deep Throat” trying to cover up, I find it interesting that they would have given a description which sounded a lot like James Angleton.

Lisa Guliani: There’s a report out stating that the GOP

dream ticket for 2008 will feature John McCain and Jeb Bush. We don’t know how plausible this is, but would you give us a little behind-the-scenes info tying the McCain family to organized crime figure Jim Hensley and the Bronfman family, who are prominent figures in the World Jewish Congress?

Michael Collins Piper: Yes, that is an interesting story. I’ve told people who like John McCain about this, and they don’t want to believe it, or they try to explain it away. Here’s what the situa-tion is: John McCain’s wife, Cindy, is the daughter of a rather interesting figure named Jim Hensley. Jim Hensley went to jail some years ago—I believe he’s dead now—but he took the fall for his boss, a guy named Kemper Marley. Well, Kemper Marley was the guy who ran the state of Arizona—both the Democratic and Republican parties.

As powerful as Kemper Marley was, he was actually the front man for the Bronfman family of Canada. Now that’s extraordinary when you think that a family operating in Canada basically was running a U.S. state. Well actually, it may not be as extraordinary because of the fact that Arizona even now has a relatively small population. It’s a big state, but has a very small population. If you set your operations up in such a place, you’re very well-positioned to be able to do something like that. That’s exactly what the Bronfman family did. It was close to Nevada, an outpost of the

As powerful as Kemper Marley was, he was actually the front man for the Bronfman family of Canada. Now that’s extraordinary when you think that a family operating in Canada basically was running a U.S. state. Well actually, it may not be as extraordinary because of the fact that Arizona even now has a relatively small population. It’s a big state, but has a very small population. If you set your operations up in such a place, you’re very well-positioned to be able to do something like that. That’s exactly what the Bronfman family did. It was close to Nevada, an outpost of the