Account of a conversation with Ferran Adrià about creative processes

Conversation with Ferran Adrià about creative processes

Activity led by Jessica Jaques, Abigail Monells and the Bullipedia team Fundación Joan Miró

16h - 18h 20.02.2014

ABSTRACT

KEYWORDS

The follow i ng i s the account of a conver sati on betw een the chef Fer r an Adr i à, students i n the Offi ci al M aster ?s i n Ar t and Desi gn pr ogr am m e at EINA, students on the Inter di sci pli nar y M aster ?s i n Desi gn: Cultur e and Ter r i tor i es at the Jean Jaur ès Univer si ty of Toulouse, m em ber s of Bulli pedi a, as w ell as other spontaneous par ti ci pants. The conver sati on took place at the Fundaci ó Joan M i r ó i n Bar celona on the after noon of Thur sday, 20 Febr uar y 2014, and lasted for near ly tw o hour s. Thi s account attem pts to r etai n the statem ents m ade by Fer r an Adr i à. We sought to r elate the w or ds of Fer r an Adr i à as accur ately as possi ble and, for thi s r eason, w e have m ai ntai ned the fi r st per son si ngular i n thi s account. How ever, w e have gr ouped hi s r esponses by topi c. Ther efor e, the account does not follow the chr onologi cal sequence of the actual conver sati on. We also do not clai m that thi s i s an exhaustive account of the conver sati on and, i n gener al, the di scour se has been sli ghtly r evi sed because, although the conver sati on w as colloqui al i n natur e, w e di d not w ant i t to be too m uch so .

On t h e cr eat i v e pr ocess

Cooki ng i s a cr eative activi ty m ade up of thr ee pr ocesses: the

concepti on of an i dea, the cr eati on of som ethi ng that tastes good, and the cr eati on of a m enu. In cooki ng, the cr eative pr ocess used to cr eate a new di sh i s not the sam e as the one used to cr eate a full m enu. In the fi r st case, ther e i s no under lyi ng them e, w hi le i n the second case ther e i s. Cr eati ng a m enu i s li ke cr eati ng a sym phony. Som e people m ay be good at one of these pr ocesses, or som e people m ay be ver y good at all thr ee. W hat i s cer tai n i s that to constr uct a di sh you need sensor y cr eativi ty. Unti l you have m aster ed m atter s of taste, textur e,

tem per atur e, i t i s ver y di ffi cult to be cr eative i n the ki tchen. In cooki ng,

Account of a conversat ion wit h Ferran Adrià

about creat ive processes

Anna Pujadas

[email protected]

Account of a conversation with Ferran Adrià about creative processes

TITLE

sensor y cr i ter i a m ake all the di ffer ence. You need a cer tai n ski ll. Bei ng a good eater i s not the sam e as bei ng a good chef. Som e people have am azi ng sensor y capabi li ti es. I haven?t m et m any people i n my li fe w ho know how a di sh i s goi ng to taste befor e they?ve even tr i ed i t. In fact, ther e have been only tw o: Pi er r e Her m é and Joël Robuchon. Cooki ng i s easy. W hat?s di ffi cult i s cr eati ng. In thr ee year s, any of you could cook as w ell as I do. Because cooki ng has nothi ng to do w i th cr eati ng. I don?t know w hether ther e i s any other di sci pli ne w her e the senses have such a pr i m ar y i m por tance. It?s r eally fasci nati ng because our sensor y capabi li ti es pr ogr essively developed dur i ng the evoluti on of the hum an br ai n. Take salt, for exam ple. How old i s i t? 15,000 year s? How di d the concept of salty develop? W hat m akes cooki ng so di ffer ent i s the ephem er al natur e of the cr eative w or k .

The m ost typi cal cr eative m ethod i s obser vati on. Watch and thi nk . Thi s r equi r es plenty of m ethod. But the i dea i n and of i tself, that?s li ke, click! If you go to a candy stor e to look for an i dea, that?s one thi ng, but i f you go to a candy stor e and you di scover an i dea, that?s som ethi ng else enti r ely. These clicks ar e di ffer ent dependi ng on w hether or not you for ce them . The m om ent of cr eativi ty i s a click. You m ay have seen som ethi ng a thousand ti m es befor e, and nothi ng, but then suddenly one day, click! The tr uth i s that i t?s not the sam e to look for i deas as i t i s to cr eate a di sh. Ever y day w e r edi scover thi ngs w e di dn?t know befor e. Of cour se, sur e,

som eti m es thi ngs happen by acci dent. At elBulli w e put a lot of study i nto acci dental cr eativi ty. Ther e i s a m agi cal m om ent that day w hen som ebody acci dentally, for exam ple, pour s i n spar kli ng w ater i nstead of sti ll w ater. Ther e w er e plenty of m om ents li ke that. Thi ngs that w er en?t i n the scr i pt. But ther e w as sti ll a scr i pt. Because our exper i ences have taught us that w i thout one, that i f ther e i s no m ethod, w e ar en?t pr oductive.

W hat happens w hen you?ve spent tw o or thr ee days just r elaxi ng? You need som ethi ng to do, or you?ll just becom e decadent. At elBulli taller w e had m ethods that w e had lear ned fr om ar ti sts, and these w or ked for us. Ar ti sts ar e the m ost pr oductive people. If you don?t di sconnect i t?s ver y har d to cr eate, and that?s w hy you need change, to seek out those

upheavals that encour age cr eati on. In 2009 w e w er e r unni ng out of steam . We w er e ver y ti r ed and so w e had to i nvent the i dea of openi ng dur i ng the autum n i nstead of i n spr i ng-sum m er, because w e knew that i n the autum n ther e w ould be di ffer ent pr oducts and that w ould be a spectacular for ce for cr eativi ty. That w as our r elease valve. The new technologi es w er e as w ell. They w er e the pow er of the m om ent. A dose of self-m otivati on and self-i nspi r ati on. Rem em ber that for a per i od of 25 year s w e changed ever ythi ng ever y year. That?s w hy w e needed four m onths to r est and di sconnect. I used to com e up w i th w ays to get people to put m or e pr essur e on m e, and thi s used to m ake m e m or e cr eative. We saw that w e w er e able to cr eate thr ee di ffer ent m enus ever y year. So once w e had one of these m enus fi ni shed, w e w ould i nvi te a cr i ti c w ho w e knew had enough

because our ti m i ngs w er e actually i ntenti onal str ategi es to pr event a lapse i nto m onotony. But som eti m es your abi li ty to be di sr uptive can r each i ts end. How ever, i t?s also tr ue that i f the cr eative team fr om elBulli got back together today, I don?t know w hat w ould happen. I don?t know because w e don?t w ant to know . We?r e 5 year s beyond that now . I?m not goi ng to have that pr oblem because now my job i s to cr eate cr eator s. M y challenge now i s to let other s be the di sr uptor s, to let other s take on that challenge. Bulli pedi a i s also an effor t to allow anybody to have thei r cr eative pr ocess, for each per son to see w hat m i ght i nter est them . W hat can I lear n fr om your pr ocess to apply to my pr ocess? W hether lear ni ng about r esour ces, or a w ay of w or ki ng, or w hatever i t m i ght be. Actually, i f I thi nk about w ho the m ost cr eative chefs i n the w or ld ar e r i ght now , they?r e not di sr uptive. I doubt that i n our gener ati on w e w i ll see another di sr uptive event i n gastr onomy li ke w hat happened dur i ng those year s at elBulli . We w er e pushi ng the li m i ts of per for m ance. Today ther e ar e som e i ncr edi ble chefs and i ncr edi ble ar ti sts, but w hat they?r e doi ng i s not cooki ng. Ther e?s a new di sci pli ne beyond the ki tchen, cr eati ng a per for m ance i n w hi ch the sensor y capaci ti es take on as m uch i m por tance as the food. Thi s i s not cui si ne. Of cour se, to r em ai n at the top of thi s per for m ance, the chef has to be spectacular. Ther e w on?t be too m any chefs w ho ar e goi ng to play thi s r ole, or too m any ar ti sts w ho ar e w i lli ng to dar e.

But w hat w e di d at elBulli w as so di sr uptive! In 1997 w e ser ved a m ousse of sm oke! W hat the hell can you do after a sm oke m ousse? W hat?s i ncr edi ble i s that even after that w e w er e sti ll looki ng for sm all di sr uptive acts at elBulli . Each year w e w er e able to cr eate di sr uptive spaces that conti nued to add up. But the di sr uptive per i od for elBulli w as r eally 1994 to 1997. We di scover ed a w or ld of our ow n. Because i t w as for us. That i s w as di sr uptive later on, w ell, that?s another stor y.

Each of us had our ow n r easons for bei ng ther e. But as ti m e goes by you r eali se that, at the end of the day, w e w er e ther e because w e thought som ethi ng w as happeni ng, and w e w er e passi onate about i t. In 1994 I w as the ow ner of elBulli and I could har dly m ake ends m eet! Full-ti m e w or k for 18 hour s ever y day, nobody can handle that. If you asked m e w hy w e put up w i th i t, I don?t know , that?s the m agi c of elBulli . But i t w asn?t the di shes w e cr eated. The cr eative team w or ked li ke dogs so that other s w ould under stand w hat w e w er e doi ng. We put our hear t and soul i nto i t, and that?s the tr uth. At fi r st ther e w er e only thr ee of us on the cr eative team and the other seven di d not cr eate. But they got exci ted too w hen they saw the thi ngs w e w er e doi ng, because they under stood the m agi c. The place, i t w as clear ly the place, that i s ever ythi ng. At elBulli you exper i enced happi ness. And you don?t need to cr eate a m ousse of sm oke to be happy. I thi nk happi ness i s a w or d that w e have to star t usi ng agai n. I w ant to use i t m or e.

On au d i t i n g cr eat i v i t y

audi t the cr eative pr ocess for cui si ne because you don?t have the techni cal abi li ti es. In cooki ng i t?s i m possi ble to be an analyst i f you don?t know the techni que for som ethi ng. If you don?t know the hi stor y of the w hi pped cr eam cani ster for cr eati ng foam s and you can?t contextuali se i t so you can?t analyse that culi nar y pr ocess. Pr obably 99.5% of the chefs and cr i ti cs i n the w or ld don?t know w hat a foam i s. W hat i s cr eated w hen som ethi ng com es out of a w hi pped cr eam cani ster should be called a ?w hi p?. A ?foam ? i s w hat com es out of the cani ster w i th the i ntenti on of m aki ng a m ousse w i thout dai r y or eggs. That i s w hat at elBulli w e called a foam . The i dea w as: How can w e m ake a r aspber r y m ousse w i thout dai r y or eggs so that the flavour w i ll be pur e? We star ted usi ng CO2 for the fi r st ti m e i n or der to m ake the w hi pped m oji to. It?s essenti al to know all of thi s i n or der to audi t. Thi s i s w hy at elBulli w e audi ted our selves. But I di dn?t li ke that. I w ould have loved for som eone else to audi t m e, but ther e w as no one else w ho could.

Audi ti ng i s not cr i ti ci si ng, but quanti fyi ng. It i nvolves stati ng facts; i t doesn?t m atter w hether or not I li ke that fact. Evoluti on i s also i nvolved; the analysi s i s evoluti onar y, not cr eative. Because ther e ar e plenty of thi ngs that I don?t cr eate, but I do take advantage of. Tom or r ow I could use the techni que of another chef and achi eve som ethi ng di ffer ent and novel w i th i t. If tom or r ow I take a techni que fr om another chef and copy i t i n my ow n ki tchen, I could cr eate som ethi ng new that w ould put m e on a w hole new path. For exam ple, li qui d ni tr ogen. The fi r st ti m e i t w as seen i n the w or ld of gastr onomy w as i n a sor bet M i chel Br as di d i n 1996-97, and nobody r eali sed the potenti al i t had. In 2000 or 2001, Or i ol Castr o and Alber t Adr i à w ent to a chem i str y fai r and they saw i t and w e used i t. To be fai r, Heston Blum enthal w as the fi r st to use i t, but he only m ade one thi ng w i th i t, w her eas w e m ade 1,000. W i thi n the evoluti onar y pr ogr essi on, they w er e the fi r st. But i t?s actually all r i di culous, because cooki ng techni ques, w hat ar e they? If I w on?t let you boi l anythi ng, w hat happens to your cooki ng then! It?s just a techni que. Thanks to li qui d ni tr ogen i n cooki ng you can cr eate a hot-cold contr ast, and thanks to li qui d ni tr ogen I can take any cocktai l and m ake i t i nto a sor bet, som ethi ng that w as i m possi ble befor e. In the end, i f you r eally w ant push the i ssue, to cr eate, cr eate fr om zer o, nobody does that. The techni que of cutti ng ? w e di dn?t cr eate that but w e use i t i n alm ost ever ythi ng. All of w hat I?m explai ni ng her e ar e

objective facts, and that?s w hat i s i nvolved w hen you do an audi t of the cr eative pr ocess.

The cr i ter i a for cr eativi ty ar e alw ays objective. We di dn?t actually audi t w hether w e w er e the fi r st to do som ethi ng, w hat w e audi ted w as w hether w e had done som ethi ng befor e. We?r e talki ng about cooki ng at a level of 10. Ther e ar e som e chefs w ho ar e ver y cr eative, but at the sam e ti m e they?ve never done anythi ng new . At level 10 w her e w e w er e doi ng our thi ng, ther e w er e only five or m aybe seven or ei ght chefs. At elBulli my m i nd w as at the cutti ng edge, and w hen w e tr i ed to m ake i t prêt-à-porter, i t just di dn?t w or k out for us. Later my br other, Alber t Adr i à, star ted a

to cr eativi ty, the level of cr eativi ty i s ver y i m por tant. At elBulli , our level w as not about cr eati ng a chai r ; i t w as about cr eati ng the chai r. Take r avi oli . I can thi nk of a bi lli on, a tr i lli on ki nds of r avi oli , for exam ple, chocolate w i th anchovi es. That?s som ethi ng pr etty uni que, r i ght? But for m e, som ethi ng li ke that has no cr eative value. It has sensor y value. But i t?s not cr eative, i t?s em oti onal. Of cour se, i t could tur n out to be so per fect that i t w ouldn?t m atter w hether i t w as cr eative or not. For exam ple, Joël Robuchon w as so per fect that he could tur n som ethi ng that w as not cr eative i nto som ethi ng that w as, even cr eati ng som e thi ngs that w hen you ate them , they w er e so exci ti ng that i t m ade up for the fact that they had no cr eative value.

On d ecod i n g

Cr eative audi ti ng and decodi ng ar e not the sam e thi ng. Decodi ng allow s us to or gani se. W her e does the r avi oli fall w i thi n the culi nar y system ? Is the r avi oli an i nter m edi ate phase of som e other fi nal pr oduct? Or, w hi ch cam e fi r st i n the evoluti onar y hi stor y of cui si ne, the em panada or the r avi oli ? If w e go back to the or i gi n, w e just have flour and w ater. If w e m ake that flat and r ound, w e?ll have a M exi can tor ti lla. Then just fold that i n half and fi ll i t, then close i t up. W hat i s that? A calzone? An em panada? Is that w hat happened? We don?t know w hat happened ? fi r st ther e w as flour, w hi ch allow ed us to m ake pasta, then clay pots w er e i nvented and w e star ted boi li ng. Sur ely the only techni que w e had befor e the Neoli thi c w as gr i lli ng on stones. Our theor y i s that i f w e could r eally know all of thi s, w e could audi t better. And also fr om know i ng thi s you could cr eate i n another w ay. Of cour se ther e i s another i m por tant w eak poi nt i n thi s theor y, w hi ch i s that I di dn?t know any of thi s and I ended up w i th elBulli ! Well, that?s not tr ue, because i n 1994 w e w er e alr eady audi ti ng our selves. It?s better for the young people to have all of these tools for cooki ng. They w i ll m ake a cr êpe and under stand that thi s w as also done i n M exi co, or Chi na. The cr êpe i s the sam e as a M exi can tor ti lla, except that i t?s not m ade w i th m ai ze. We m ust be able to untangle all of thi s and know w hat each thi ng i s.

One of the thi ngs w e?r e goi ng to do at Bulli pedi a i s an evoluti onar y analysi s of the hi stor y of cooki ng, and then see w her e i t goes fr om ther e. W hen you study haute cui si ne, i t seem s li ke i t star ts i n Italy and then goes to Fr ance. You need to analyse ver y w ell w hat the di ffer ence betw een Italy and Fr ance i s. If you look at the book Le viandier by Tai llevent (14th centur y) although i t?s a li ttle r usti c, ther e ar e r eci pes w i th an egg on the gr i ll, w hi ch today w ould be super m oder n. At Bulli pedi a w e?r e tr yi ng to fi gur e out w hat the fi r st book i n the hi stor y of haute cui si ne w as, and w e sti ll haven?t found i t.

that be fr om the w or ld of the Bar oque? If I cr eate a deconstr ucti on of gazpacho, and you sti ll r ecogni se i t, w hat have I cr eated? A gazpacho var i ati on?

On eat er

Just li ke ther e i s an i ndivi dual cr eative pr ocess, ther e i s an i ndivi dual eati ng pr ocess. Ther e have been ti m es w hen I?ve gotten exci ted about a chef, w i thout ever goi ng to eat that chef ?s food. At elBulli , you ei ther loved i t or you di dn?t. Pr opor ti onally, ther e w as about the sam e num ber of people w ho loved i t as w ho hated i t. Sur ely thi s aver si on w as because w e w er e m aki ng people r eflect upon som ethi ng that they di dn?t w ant to r eflect upon. If you ate a pi stachi o tr uffle that w as soli d on the outsi de and li qui d on the i nsi de, that w as som ethi ng new that you had never felt befor e. M aybe you could under stand i t, or m aybe not. Even at the sam e table ther e m ay have been som e people w ho got i t and other people w ho di dn?t. We used to i ntr oduce a new r eci pe each day, and som eti m es w hat happened w as that ther e w ould be a table w her e ever ythi ng cam e together and the m enu they ate w as a 10, because that day ther e w er e 10 br i lli ant di shes of the 12 that w e w er e ser vi ng, but at the sam e ti m e, at another table i t w asn?t li ke that. Per haps you need to go to a cutti ng-edge r estaur ant one day after another and analyse di ffer ent tables. W hen you w ent and you had never been befor e, i t w as m or e than just som ethi ng speci al; i t w as r eally a shock because i t w as so di ffer ent. It w asn?t the cr eative expectati on that you m ay have had. Thi s i s w hy i t w as so di ffi cult to fi nd cr eative audi tor s. Ther e w as nobody at cr eativi ty level 10; they w er e at level 8 m aybe. They knew a lot, sur e, but w e w er e flyi ng at a hi gher level. Som eti m es w e even slow ed dow n a bi t and those exper ts sti ll di dn?t under stand anythi ng. None of thi s has anythi ng to do w i th w hether or not they li ked the m enu. If som ebody sai d ther e w as too m uch fr ui t i n the m enu, that di dn?t i nter est m e at all. That w asn?t w hat i t w as about. W hen you go to see a hor r or fi lm , i t doesn?t m ake you feel good, but you sti ll li ke i t. As a chef, m etaphor i cally, you can i ncor por ate fear at som e poi nt i n the m enu. Fear or pr ovocati on. The m ost i m por tant aspect of elBulli w as pr ovocati on, i r ony, som ethi ng i llogi cal. The poi nt of the food w as not to m ake you li ke i t. Instead, the i dea w as cr eated that you?r e goi ng to li ke i t pr eci sely because you?r e not goi ng to li ke i t. I don?t thi nk i t?s com pulsor y that dur i ng a long exper i ence li ke a full m enu you?r e goi ng to li ke ever ythi ng, i t m i ght even get ti r esom e. And at elBulli i t w as. Because w hen you got to di sh 26, you r eached the poi nt w her e your m i nd w as just over loaded. Som e people w ould go out onto the pati o to r est and then com e back i n. It w as i m possi ble to r em em ber ever ythi ng you had eaten. So i n 2010-2011, w hen w e deci ded to becom e a foundati on, that last season, w e w er e only thi nki ng about the people. That w as the only ti m e w e w anted people to be happy, to give i t all a bi g fi ni sh, because for us w e felt li ke i t had alr eady ended.

to put i n m or e thi ngs m i ght be over w helm i ng, although thi s doesn?t m ean that m entally you couldn?t do i t. I?ve alw ays sai d that i t?s good to live on the edge. The r estaur ant Ti ckets i n Bar celona, my br other Alber t Adr i à has i t set up li ke a theatr e. Of cour se, that?s not easy to do. Ther e ar e as m any di ffer ent desi gns for di ni ng spaces as ther e ar e ki tchens. And i n the cr eative ki tchen, the m ost i m por tant thi ng i s w hatever i s i m por tant for the chef. For exam ple, i f you ser ve m ai n cour ses you?ll need one type of table, w hi le i f you do snacks, you?d need som ethi ng di ffer ent.

It?s gr eat i f you can i ncor por ate the di ni ng exper i ence i nto the food. We have to speak of thi s ugly w or d ?exper i ence? to som eone w ho eats ever y day. Because w e all eat ever y day. We all have our day-to-day

r elati onshi p w i th food. And thi s doesn?t happen w i th other di sci pli nes. You?r e not r equi r ed to go and li sten to m usi c, for exam ple. For myself i n par ti cular, thi s com m uni on of the ar chi tect w i th the chef i n or der to joi ntly cr eate the di ni ng space has alw ays bother ed m e. At the level of exper i ence, Fr ank Gehr y?s desi gn at the m useum i n Bi lbao doesn?t i nter est m e at all, but on the other hand, the food i s excepti onal.

On d esi gn

W hen w e speak about desi gn, w hat desi gn ar e w e r efer r i ng to? Ar e w e talki ng about gr aphi c desi gn? Industr i al desi gn? Because these ar e com pletely di ffer ent. The desi gn pr ocess i s som eti m es the sam e, other ti m es i t i sn?t. Cr eati on i s one thi ng, and ar ti sti c pr oducti on i s another. Cr eati on i s som ethi ng that then has to be sent to a factor y, and once ther e, another pr ocess follow s. Thi s var i abi li ty m ust be establi shed for all of the pr ocesses. To give an exam ple, usi ng a standar d, i ndustr i al tablew ar e i s not the sam e as usi ng tablew ar e that?s ?m ade to or der ?, as Luesm a & Vega di d for us at Pueblo Español i n Bar celona.

For m e, the m ost i nter esti ng thi ng that has happened i n thi s countr y i n r ecent year s i n r elati on to i ndustr i al desi gn i s the tablew ar e concept that w as gener ated by the collabor ati on betw een elBulli and Ester Luesm a and Xavi er Vega. It w as ver y exci ti ng to go thei r pr oducti on centr e as a chef and w or k w i th and cr eate w i th those people the suppor t you need for your concept. Because the logi cal thi ng w ould be to cr eate a plate for each pr oject. That w ould be a 10; and fr om such a dem andi ng posi ti on you can only go dow nw ar ds. W i th these