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KR Do you think there are better and worse times to have Heart-to-Heart Talks?
LC Oh, absolutely. A better time is when you’re not going to be interrupted, where you can be focused on one another and you have time to finish whatever comes up. When people try to have Heart-to-Heart Talks in the middle of busy activity, and they think they can answer the phone or they try and do it during commercials in between television shows, it’s
disastrous. Some people experience some success when they’re in the car together, but only with lightweight topics. For sexual conversations that are so vulnerable and—there’s so much power in a Heart-to-Heart Talk that has to do with sexual revelations—it’s really important that you can be looking at one another and that you know you’re not going to be
interrupted. It’s a special time, a sacred time, and you make sure that your environment supports that. So you’re not going to do it in a shopping center, probably not in a coffee shop. You’re going to have some privacy and quiet.
KR Let’s say someone wanted to use a Heart-to-Heart Talk to help resolve some disagreement that’s going on. Is it suitable for that kind of thing? Would you do that in the middle of an argument?
LC Oftentimes, it really helps. Because what happens in an argument is that people get locked into their own perceptions, and they start broadcasting their truth without listening to the other person. And they think that if they communicate their truth loud enough, strong enough, whatever, that they will “win the argument.” And what Heart-to-Heart Talks do, really, is they shift a conversation into more of a learning conversation, where you communicate in a way that allows you to learn about yourself at a deeper level and to learn about your partner. So when you’re really listening to them with what I call a quiet mind (which means you’re not listening to
the voice inside your head commenting about what they’re saying—you’re actually listening to them), it changes the whole dynamic of the
relationship. People feel safer. They feel that they’re really being listened to, so it tends to neutralize that escalating, my-way-or-the-highway energy that comes from arguments. So when we’re teaching people about fair fighting or resolving conflicts, we recommend that if they notice that they’re starting to get emotional, and they’re starting to speak over one another’s sentences, and they’re not really listening to one another, they say, “You know what? Now’s a good time for a Heart-to-Heart Talk. Why don’t we do a ‘clearing’ so that we can really listen to one another.” KR I asked that because it’s possible this book could create some conflict for
people. Something you said helped me realize I needed to interview you for this project, which was that there would be some buttons pushed,
potentially, by what we’ve written—that issues might be raised for people reading it. What do you think are going to be the most common things to come up?
LC Specifically, whatever their sexual wounding might be. Most people in Western culture have a lot of sexual wounding because there’s a lot of sexual guilt in our culture. We’re taught to be, for the most part, ashamed of our private parts. “Keep ‘em under cover. Don’t let anybody see ‘em.” That kind of feeling tone. So whatever the individual’s sexual wounding may be, those will be the issues to get ignited.
More generally, I’d say that the fear or concern that the way they’ve been doing it isn’t okay. And that somebody wants them to change. KR When we say “the way they’ve been doing it,” we mean pubic grooming or
the lack thereof.
LC Orientation to their sexuality, pubic grooming, or whatever. It’s like, if you’ve been wearing your hair cut one way, and somebody says, “Hey, I’d
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like you to change your haircut to this,” there can often be this, “Well, what’s the matter with the way I’ve been doing it?” So there’s this kind of invalidation factor that can be perceived but not intended.
And then there’s the fear of more vulnerability. When you start talking about it, when you start
revealing your private parts in a particular kind of way, it can feel more vulnerable than the act of sex itself.
And especially for women, there is this kind of dangerous place about really stepping into being playful with your sexuality—that if you become playful, you are
dancing very close to that whorish line that shows up in our culture somehow. It’s as if in order to avoid being a whore, you’re supposed to be pure and it’s supposed to be a sacred act—
KR You’re not supposed to know too much. You’re not supposed to do too much. You’re not supposed to pay that much attention to it.
LC Yes, it’s just supposed to happen magically and beautifully through the grace of something. And so to put this much attention on that part of your body in a kind of bold, playful way can sometimes, for some women, feel risky. That old paradigm of I won’t be respected if they see this part of me— that can be a big trigger that most women don’t go around thinking consciously, but informs their relationship with their own sexuality. KR I also had one woman say to me that her concern was that she didn’t want
to be changing anything about herself just to please a man.